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US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

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Re: US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

#731

Post by ck2 »

TaurenHunter wrote: post #599

I don't see anyone mentioning that the United States needs to manage its massive national debt, currently in the trillions, by issuing Treasury securities. These securities mature at varying intervals and require continuous "rolling" or refinancing to pay off old debt with new borrowing. Significant rollovers are expected from April through September 2025, with additional short-term maturities due by June. Higher int…

The F-35 jet will cost over $1.5 Trillion, doesn't work and won't be used

Cancel it and stop making everyone's daily life absolute hell by doubling the prices of groceries, car payments, etc. every month

National Debt is not a problem for a country that will be around for 1000+ years unless you know of something that is going to greatly shorten that.

There are nearly 1,000 BILLIONAIRES in the US, the debt is their problem, they can pay more taxes until it's down to a number you like.

Re: US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

#732

Post by rtkwe »

srj wrote: post #630
roxolotl wrote: post #479

Aside from everything else one thing what strikes me as particularly insane is how it’s not even defensible as a protective measure. My favorite everyday olive oil comes from Tunisia. They now have a 38% tariff on them. There are no out of work olive farmers in the US. The orange man wanted tariffs, the orange man is going to get tariffs. Now we have to hope the American people aren’t so dumb as to still be convinced…

>> There are no out of work olive farmers in the US. I'm not sure this is true. I buy olive oil specifically from California. It's niche but could be larger if they weren't competing with lower overseas labor costs.

Not 50 times larger which is what it would need to be to supply the current domestic consumption. California only produced 1.94 million gallons of olive oil in 2023, that same year the US used ~98.5 million gallons of olive oil.

Even if we could snap our fingers and create the orchards out of thin air there's not enough land and water to grow 50x our current production. Then where's the worker population coming from? They're also trying to drive overall immigration to essentially zero.

Re: US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

#733

Post by mrtksn »

roxolotl wrote: post #479

Aside from everything else one thing what strikes me as particularly insane is how it’s not even defensible as a protective measure. My favorite everyday olive oil comes from Tunisia. They now have a 38% tariff on them. There are no out of work olive farmers in the US. The orange man wanted tariffs, the orange man is going to get tariffs. Now we have to hope the American people aren’t so dumb as to still be convinced…

IMHO the idea is that they are ready to accept the suffering of Tunisian oil lovers for the greater good, which is the empowerment of certain type of people like them.

It's basically Europe but hundred or more years ago.

Re: US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

#734

Post by Justsignedup »

lumb63 wrote: post #625

Everyone is quick to deride this move as stupid. I don’t disagree that there are downsides to the approach, but there is a set of very real national problems that this might address. For instance, globalization and offshoring of production has made goods cheaper for consumers, but what about the former domestic producers who could not compete, and do not have the skills or capital to find a new job which pays as well…

Tarrifs are a tool that must be applied strategically. You typically announce tarrifs years in advance so business can shift their logistics and build out manufacturing where you want it. However a daily change in tariffs only creates a chaos that the economy cannot simply respond to fast enough.

A new steel mill won't magically appear in the middle of the US within a month.

Re: US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

#735

Post by scryers_bloom »

nilkn wrote: post #521

I don't know how I feel about this overall. But I do want to recount something from my childhood. I'm American. I grew up in the rural Midwest. The truth is that much of this country is a depressing shell of its former self. The town I grew up in is all but dead -- about 12,000 people still live there, though. The nearest big city, previously a hub of manufacturing innovation, has been on a steady decline for decades…

This theme of "small town USA" is dying everywhere, even here in Upstate New York. Drugs and lack of opportunity has a chokehold on everywhere in America.

Re: US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

#736

Post by e40 »

nilkn wrote: post #521

I don't know how I feel about this overall. But I do want to recount something from my childhood. I'm American. I grew up in the rural Midwest. The truth is that much of this country is a depressing shell of its former self. The town I grew up in is all but dead -- about 12,000 people still live there, though. The nearest big city, previously a hub of manufacturing innovation, has been on a steady decline for decades…

I understand the emotion, but emotion alone will not get us out of this. Here is a very similar post from someone much like you:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43565630

It makes a lot of good counterpoints.

Re: US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

#737

Post by schnable »

no_wizard wrote: post #651
TaurenHunter wrote: post #599

I don't see anyone mentioning that the United States needs to manage its massive national debt, currently in the trillions, by issuing Treasury securities. These securities mature at varying intervals and require continuous "rolling" or refinancing to pay off old debt with new borrowing. Significant rollovers are expected from April through September 2025, with additional short-term maturities due by June. Higher int…

I know there is a crowd that talks about debt alot and these are all legitimate concerns However they could also raise taxes on capital gains and top end income brackets - which are at ludicrously low levels for folks of significant wealth - which would go a very long way here. Some estimates suggest it could put the US back in a surplus quite quickly edit: I'm saying there is an argument for raising taxes. I don't t…

The problem is that raising top end rates don't go far enough. It's a start, but we also need to raise the lower rates to solve the problem. That, or dramatically cut benefits.

Re: US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

#738

Post by 0x5f3759df-i »

ASinclair wrote: post #711
lumb63 wrote: post #625

Everyone is quick to deride this move as stupid. I don’t disagree that there are downsides to the approach, but there is a set of very real national problems that this might address. For instance, globalization and offshoring of production has made goods cheaper for consumers, but what about the former domestic producers who could not compete, and do not have the skills or capital to find a new job which pays as well…

If you believe in these tariffs then the major problem is how he enacted them. Businesses want certainty. It takes years to build factories. The next president could just wipe away these tariffs instantly. Hell, even the current one could. That does not give these companies the certainty they need to commit years of effort to building factories. If the goal is to spur domestic manufacturing then, at a minimum, he wou…

This is the key point. Even if tariffs did everything Trump claims they will (they will not) no one is investing billions to build factories in America for tariffs that will not be there in a few years.

Turns out that governing based on the whims of the executive has downsides.

Re: US Administration announces 34% tariffs on China, 20% on EU

#740

Post by scotty79 »

electriclove wrote: post #721
roxolotl wrote: post #479

Aside from everything else one thing what strikes me as particularly insane is how it’s not even defensible as a protective measure. My favorite everyday olive oil comes from Tunisia. They now have a 38% tariff on them. There are no out of work olive farmers in the US. The orange man wanted tariffs, the orange man is going to get tariffs. Now we have to hope the American people aren’t so dumb as to still be convinced…

There are small olive oil producers in the US. Do they see this as a good thing?

Why wouldn't they? They can immediately raise prices by however many percent the tariff is. Probably a bit less because higher price causes lower demand. So let's say raise by half of the tariff.

Maybe it will partially offset the increased cost of everything they need to buy and sell olives.

Now when I think of it it might be a wash.

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