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How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

krebsonsecurity.com

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Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#731

Post by milesrout »

sham1 wrote: post #431
milesrout wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is banning books. Removing inappropriate material from school libraries isn't book banning. Have you seen some of the books that are being removed? That books with graphic depictions of aren't appropriate for children is a view perfectly compatible with strong support for freedom of expression.

Okay, but counterpoint: why don't these school libraries also remove for example the Bible, a work known for extremely graphic content, eroticism, calls to kill based on one's tribe and doing stuff like working on the Sabbath. It's also a book explicitly meant for indoctrinating children into a given religion, or actually one of two religions! These principles of what is good and age-appropriate for children doesn't…

Because it is an historically important work that is necessary to have some understanding of to understand large parts of history. Its purpose also is not indoctrination or titillation.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#732

Post by milesrout »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #573
nine_k wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoting the article: > It’s shunning time in Madison County, Virginia, where the school board recently banished my novel The Handmaid’s Tale from the shelves of the high-school library. Note: a school library. A student can go to a regular library and check out this book, if they are really interested. If you want to see what real book banning looks like, read the list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_books_ban…

Redefining the definition of book banning is not a good look and not a way to win this argument. It's a hole you really don't want to dig.

Book banning means banning books. It doesn't mean removing books from school libraries. That isn't what it has ever meant. Who is doing the redefining?

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#733

Post by milesrout »

nine_k wrote: post #589
kelseyfrog wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Redefining the definition of book banning is not a good look and not a way to win this argument. It's a hole you really don't want to dig.

The First Amendment specifically speaks about government not limiting free expression. An indeed, school boards are a branch of the government, not a private organization. Their actions may be seen as a real infraction on the First Amendment. Thank you for the correction.

If the state doesn't limit freedom of expression by choosing what material to teach in schools (which it does) then it doesn't limit it by choosing what material to host in school libraries (which it does).

If you want to say removing these books from school libraries is an illegitimate constraint on freedom of expression, then so is the school curriculum. So is public education generally.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#734

Post by raxxorraxor »

milesrout wrote: post #405
sapphicsnail wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have yet to see a free speech absolutist express concern about the government and media suppressing Gaza protestors or LGBTQ books being banned or anything else that affects the left. Doesn't seem very principled to me.

Nobody is banning books. Removing inappropriate material from school libraries isn't book banning. Have you seen some of the books that are being removed? That books with graphic depictions of aren't appropriate for children is a view perfectly compatible with strong support for freedom of expression.

Left political circles did remove books as well. At the time it was mostly argued that the authors are racists or had some form of flaw.

The justification was exactly the same at the time. "It isn't censorship, it is just not recommended anymore". Given, that was/is true for many literary expositions as well.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#735

Post by milesrout »

croes wrote: post #470
milesrout wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is banning books. Removing inappropriate material from school libraries isn't book banning. Have you seen some of the books that are being removed? That books with graphic depictions of aren't appropriate for children is a view perfectly compatible with strong support for freedom of expression.

Inappropriate by whom? Do you have a list of those books so I can check if I see the same kind of inappropriateness?

Inappropriate according to the school. Schools determine all sorts of things along those lines. They choose what to teach in the first place. Is that in violation of freedom of speech too? School libraries aren't unlimited. They can't contain every possible book. And you wouldn't want them to contain, for example, Playboy magazine or other actual pornographical publications. Schools are obviously allowed to determine what is and isn't appropriate; this is much better, having it decided locally, rather than what, deciding at a national level what is and isn't okay.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#736

Post by greenie_beans »

mbs159 wrote: post #696
outside1234 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if we protest en mass and all stick together. The thing that will kill us is if we obey in advance and don’t do these things.

Trump has repeatedly suggested that he will use the military on the "enemy from within". Protests could end up looking like what we see in Belarus and Russia - masked "police" shows up and they beat them up and / or take them away.

and that makes you scared? you are playing into his hand if so. that makes me want to go to the streets even more.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#738

Post by kasey_junk »

slowhadoken wrote: post #185
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Aren’t most news agencies, directly or indirectly, owned by BlackRock, State Street, or the Vanguard Group? That’s a real question It’s a stupid question easily dismissed with a modicum of research. (Most papers aren’t public.)

[flagged]

> Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like.

You are engaging in behavior that is explicitly against the rules here. You should stop.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#739

Post by greenie_beans »

al_borland wrote: post #360
esalman wrote: post #184

It started with the Free Palestine protesters. Tesla protesters are next. Citizens will be shipped to El Salvador, non-citizens to where they came from.

What many of them are doing isn’t a legally protected form of protesting. Free Palestine protesters have been shutting down roads with their protests, this is illegal. Tesla protesters are vandalizing the vehicles of private citizens and burning down dealerships. This is also illegal, and due to its political goals, it seems to fit the textbook definition of terrorism. > the calculated use of violence (or the threat…

writing an oped isn't illegal. why is that grounds for being detained?

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#740

Post by greenie_beans »

esalman wrote: post #184

It started with the Free Palestine protesters. Tesla protesters are next. Citizens will be shipped to El Salvador, non-citizens to where they came from.

just to be clear, they aren't just detaining palestine protesters. they are also detaining labor activists: https://peoplesdispatch.org/2025/03/26/ice-is-kidnapping-imm...

government is going after activists for other political issues, not just palestine protestors

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