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'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

theguardian.com

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Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#731

Post by ptx »

archon810 wrote: post #584
2shortplanks wrote: post #167

One thing this article doesn’t mention is how this all falls apart when you spend time in more than one country. My UK bank (Barclays) won’t let me install their app on my US iPhone (i.e. my phone that uses a US based iCloud account). Tesco won’t let me use their loyalty app. I can’t install an app that’ll let me order Starbucks or McDonalds in the UK (I only have access to the US versions of these apps). I can’t wat…

If you're on Android, apkmirror.com or another similar site is a good and safe solution.

On the safety point, how would I ensure that e.g. the APK for my banking app is authentic and unmodified?

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#732

Post by kelnos »

gamedever wrote: post #569
lambda wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm kind of puzzled by your first point. In my experience, parking apps require you to pay in larger chunks of hours than paying with coins used to; many times I have to pay for a minimum of 2 hours of parking with the app when I could pay for just 10 or 15 minutes of parking with coins.

Parking apps requires registration. I arrive, park my car then (1) via machine: insert my card into the machine, get ticket, leave (2) via app: spend 10 minutes registering an account, email, password, phone number, wants verification via email or phone number, wants me to register my credit card and the agree to them selling all my data. IF on the other hand, they just made it use some kind of common e-cash and no r…

If you pay with a card, then they can track you, so it doesn't really matter if you put that card into a machine or into an app account.

For places where I don't expect to return (or only rarely), sure, having to do an app is annoying. But for places where you expect to use it often enough, it can be a time-saver, after the initial time cost of setup.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#733

Post by kelnos »

tmnvix wrote: post #502
joseda-hg wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do iOS and Android phones have a "wallet", and why a boarding pass would have anything to do with it? It's not that deep, just a skeuomorphic name for somewhere where you'd keep importants/valuables for quick access, credit/debit cards, boarding passes, concert tickets Not unlike keeping a folded up copy of a pass in a physical wallet (Which may not be universal, but I would have guessed not that uncommon eithe…

And if your phone is out of order? I used a PDF version of the boarding pass on my laptop in the past due to a flat phone. Even when my phone is available I still just use the PDF version that was emailed to me. I never use my phone 'wallet' for anything.

You can do all those things if you want. Download the PDF to your laptop, add the pass to your phone's wallet, even print out a backup copy if you want. And then when you get to the airport, use whichever is most convenient for you.

I generally just get the mobile pass and put it in Google Wallet. If I ever run into a situation where my phone is lost/broken/battery-drained, I'll just go up to the check-in desk or a kiosk and get my boarding pass printed. No big deal.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#734

Post by kelnos »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #508
scarface_74 wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until two years ago, I flew out of ATL - the busiest airport in the US. Am I suppose to look on the board and look for my flight out of the hundreds of flights to see if anything has changed and keep looking every 30 minutes? If I’m sitting at a restaurant or a bar I should get up every 20 minutes to see if something has changed? Should I also print out MapQuest directions before I go somewhere and wait for the paper…

> Until two years ago, I flew out of ATL - the busiest airport in the US. Am I suppose to look on the board and look for my flight out of the hundreds of flights to see if anything has changed and keep looking every 30 minutes? That’s what I usually do. It’s not that much of an effort to look at the screen right at the gate you’re sitting at to confirm that nothing has changed. I‘ve been to ATL twice, it’s not that b…

> What are you going to do when something happens to your phone

Uh... look at the big departures board, duh. I don't see why it's weird to want to use an indisputably more convenient method (auto-updating pass on my phone) for the common case, but still be able to fall back to a less-convenient method (departures board) if the uncommon case comes up.

And no big deal if I need a paper boarding pass. I can just walk over to the gate, show them my ID, and ask them to print me one.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#735

Post by petepete »

lambda wrote: post #156
pqtyw wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late (or wasting money if I get back early). > 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. Unless the app is exceptionally horrible you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is muc…

I'm kind of puzzled by your first point. In my experience, parking apps require you to pay in larger chunks of hours than paying with coins used to; many times I have to pay for a minimum of 2 hours of parking with the app when I could pay for just 10 or 15 minutes of parking with coins.

On public transport I can tap in and tap out with the wallet on phone or any bank card. Car parks could work in exactly the same way, but instead there are 15 apps.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#736

Post by kelnos »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #553
scarface_74 wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s what I usually do. It’s not that much of an effort to look at the screen right at the gate you’re sitting at to confirm that nothing has changed. I‘ve been to ATL twice, it’s not that bad. And you somehow think that’s more efficient? Do you also think polling is more efficient than web hooks and push notifications? Why would I do that? And the restaurants are usually not right at the gate you’re sitting at.…

What is there to be more efficient? You’re sitting there waiting for a flight. This isn’t a shopping mall, even if it appears to look like one. Re push vs pull… which one do you prefer more? Kafka or MQTT? On a more serious note… pull because I don’t sit snd stare at the phone all the time. Phone stays in the pocket. So the act of taking it out of the pocket is a pull action. There are no screens and announcements at…

I really don't get why you're being so hostile here. If you don't want to rely on modern conveniences, don't. There's no reason to get up in arms that some of us think that other ways can be easier.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#737

Post by kelnos »

Marsymars wrote: post #623
pqtyw wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late (or wasting money if I get back early). > 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. Unless the app is exceptionally horrible you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is muc…

> Unless the app is exceptionally horrible you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is much more convenient than having to find a printer. You can just print at the airport at the check-in machines. I never even bother checking-in in advance of arriving at the airport. I theorize that they assign bad seats to early checkins to incentivize people to pay to choose a different seats. I have at various times…

> You can just print at the airport at the check-in machines.

I have been to airports a non-trivial amount of times where there were lines even at the self-service kiosks.

> I theorize that they assign bad seats to early checkins

Oof, I would never fly an airline or buy a fare class that didn't let me choose a seat immediately, at time of booking.

Anyway, this theory of yours needs some evidence... doesn't really pass the smell test for me.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#738

Post by kelnos »

ryandrake wrote: post #163
pqtyw wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late (or wasting money if I get back early). > 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. Unless the app is exceptionally horrible you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is muc…

Don’t people just print their boarding passes at home before they leave for the airport? Or worst case, use the kiosks at the airports which print passes? Very few of the passengers in line ahead of me are using their phones.

Huh, interesting, I suppose it depends on where you live, but most people I see at airport gates are scanning a boarding pass on their phone.

Most people I know also don't even have a printer at home. (I didn't either, until a few years ago.)

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#739

Post by kelnos »

mrweasel wrote: post #426
ryandrake wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t people just print their boarding passes at home before they leave for the airport? Or worst case, use the kiosks at the airports which print passes? Very few of the passengers in line ahead of me are using their phones.

I don't trust apps, I don't mind using them for stuff that doesn't matter much, like parking og supermarket loyalty programs. For travel information, absolutly fucking not. I print everything. At the airport I mostly see people using their phones as boarding passes, I absolutely refuse to do that, I have zero trust that that will work as well as the paper boarding passes.

I mean, they do demonstrably work. And if for some reason yours doesn't, no big deal, just walk two feet over to the gate desk and ask them to print you one.

I prefer to use mobile boarding passes so I don't have to waste paper, and don't have to keep track of yet one more thing while traveling. (I'm already bringing my phone, so I have to keep track of that regardless.)

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#740

Post by febusravenga »

cwoolfe wrote: post #296

Yes! I've often said "software engineers should be doomed to use what they create. Or at least watch others try to use it." One example is our local Costco parking garage. They replaced the old push-button ticketing kiosk (which had nothing wrong with it) with one that had a touchscreen. Many times the line is backed up and one day I saw why. The guy was pushing the touchscreen button as if it were physical, and it w…

Times where SWEs decided about these things are long gone. It's all in hands of product managers, designers and other business oriented people.
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