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Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

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Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#731

Post by fc417fc802 »

zmgsabst wrote: post #712
fc417fc802 wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Density over some wide area is the wrong metric here. An entire state is absurdly large (in most cases). Two dense endpoints can be separated by quite a distance and still be worth connecting.

CA is a third as dense as Japan, as whole. Tokyo has 8.9M people while LA has 3.9M people; half the number. Osaka (3rd largest) is 2.7M people while San Jose (3rd largest) is just under 1M people; again, half the number. The distance from Tokyo to Osaka is 500km, while from LA to San Jose is 550km. (In both cases, the 2nd largest city is nearby the largest.) You have half the justification in CA you do in Japan, look…

Why is Japan's density the magic number? A given route is either viable or not.

The US historically had much more passenger rail than it currently does. You haven't provided any convincing reasons why that shouldn no longer be workable in the modern day.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#732

Post by fc417fc802 »

account42 wrote: post #722
fc417fc802 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also much more pleasant. And in the rare cases when things do go wrong your chances of survival are much higher.

> It's also much more pleasant. And much slower. Most people prefer shorter discomfort over a longer one. Also sometimes more expensive because train service is much more monopolized due to the need for infrastructure betweem stations.

Granted the lines are a natural monopoly. I don't see why the usual regulatory approaches shouldn't work. The government could even provide the infrastructure similar to highways.

> sometimes more expensive

Examples? Because that seems patently ridiculous on its face given the differences in energy requirements.

There are plenty of places with functional rail systems to compare to. This stuff isn't rocket science.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#733

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

johann8384 wrote: post #728
arrowsmith wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why were you trying to extinguish a fire using diesel?

I would guess they were not trying to extinguish a fire with diesel and accidentally learned you could.

Indeed. It was about 0 degree Celsius, camping and we were trying to get a bit of a fire going for heat. I won't do that with petrol as I value my eyebrows, ended up having to thin the diesel a bit with petrol as we discovered splashing diesel on a small flame on damp wood doesn't help at all.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#734

Post by seszett »

zmgsabst wrote: post #712
fc417fc802 wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Density over some wide area is the wrong metric here. An entire state is absurdly large (in most cases). Two dense endpoints can be separated by quite a distance and still be worth connecting.

CA is a third as dense as Japan, as whole. Tokyo has 8.9M people while LA has 3.9M people; half the number. Osaka (3rd largest) is 2.7M people while San Jose (3rd largest) is just under 1M people; again, half the number. The distance from Tokyo to Osaka is 500km, while from LA to San Jose is 550km. (In both cases, the 2nd largest city is nearby the largest.) You have half the justification in CA you do in Japan, look…

> Tokyo has 8.9M people while LA has 3.9M people; half the number. Osaka (3rd largest) is 2.7M people while San Jose (3rd largest) is just under 1M people; again, half the number. The distance from Tokyo to Osaka is 500km, while from LA to San Jose is 550km. (In both cases, the 2nd largest city is nearby the largest.)

Paris has 2M people and Bordeaux has 1M people (sixth largest urban area in France), they are 500 km apart. How come France is able to operate a dedicated high-speed line between these cities? The third largest city on that line is Tours with 360k people or so.

California has almost the same population density as France, actually, but it's less spread out so just one line would be much more useful than a single line is in France.

Canada just announced a high-speed line project between Québec, Montreal and Toronto, by the way.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#736

Post by rangestransform »

zmgsabst wrote: post #712
fc417fc802 wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Density over some wide area is the wrong metric here. An entire state is absurdly large (in most cases). Two dense endpoints can be separated by quite a distance and still be worth connecting.

CA is a third as dense as Japan, as whole. Tokyo has 8.9M people while LA has 3.9M people; half the number. Osaka (3rd largest) is 2.7M people while San Jose (3rd largest) is just under 1M people; again, half the number. The distance from Tokyo to Osaka is 500km, while from LA to San Jose is 550km. (In both cases, the 2nd largest city is nearby the largest.) You have half the justification in CA you do in Japan, look…

DC and NYC have more collective GDP than Tokyo and Osaka, two cities which have already started building a maglev between them

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#737

Post by organsnyder »

singleshot_ wrote: post #672
hassleblad23 wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have agency over other drivers on the road and they might cause an accident without any fault of yours. That issue is (almost) entirely avoided by planes.

I never thought of that! But importantly, I have the ability to see and react and avoid the collision. On the plane, I have the ability to eat lunch. Surely this could be considered a difference in agency.

I can't argue that you have more agency in a personal vehicle. Agency and safety are not directly correlated, though: in fact, I'd argue that for transportation, they're often inversely related.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#738

Post by FredPret »

account42 wrote: post #724
FredPret wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wanted to point out that Boeing's various disasters are not due to greed but to the combination of stupidity and greed. When smart people get greedy, they build things that last and that they can be proud of, because that's what's best for them long term. Whereas when smart people have zero greed, they build nothing at all. You need a strong motivation to power you through the pain of creating something good.

> because that's what's best for them long term Is it? Many greedy people seem to happily fail upwards (or sideways to different companies). The baseline for compensation is generally what your previous compensation was, not the long-term success of your creations.

The people in charge could have made billions more if they held stock for the rest of their lives in a successful company that they helped build.

A long term success is a safer bet, a bigger payout, less stressful, and something to be proud of on your deathbed.

Compare causing and then jumping from one shipwreck to another like a stressed out little rat.

A smart person who wants a great life will choose a long-term orientation.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#739

Post by willhslade »

seszett wrote: post #734
zmgsabst wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CA is a third as dense as Japan, as whole. Tokyo has 8.9M people while LA has 3.9M people; half the number. Osaka (3rd largest) is 2.7M people while San Jose (3rd largest) is just under 1M people; again, half the number. The distance from Tokyo to Osaka is 500km, while from LA to San Jose is 550km. (In both cases, the 2nd largest city is nearby the largest.) You have half the justification in CA you do in Japan, look…

> Tokyo has 8.9M people while LA has 3.9M people; half the number. Osaka (3rd largest) is 2.7M people while San Jose (3rd largest) is just under 1M people; again, half the number. The distance from Tokyo to Osaka is 500km, while from LA to San Jose is 550km. (In both cases, the 2nd largest city is nearby the largest.) Paris has 2M people and Bordeaux has 1M people (sixth largest urban area in France), they are 500 km…

Yeah, lame duck Canadian Prime Minister announcing something that will be immediately cancelled by the next PM isn't the support you think it is.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#740

Post by hectormalot »

potato3732842 wrote: post #677
varjag wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think a stressed rando inside the plane is in position to evaluate how soon it will combust. Not even the firemen on the outside often have a clue.

Eh, I'd defer to them over some rando on the internet who's only seen a video that shows a short snippet of what went on. The best anyone here can do is screech about not following the default suggested practice of leaving the luggage but the person who took the bag was actually there. Perhaps they had to pick it up because it was on the floor (ceiling) in their way. Not much harm in carrying it if it's something tha…

I’ve read a few of these in depth crash analyses: https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/

I’ve realized that fires are a way bigger issue than you might imagine after a crash — things can go south really quickly. Multiple stories of planes going from “fire outside” to “people suffocating and burning to death in their seats” in minutes. Here’s one of a 737 in Manchester, taxied of the runway intact, 55 people died: https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/fire-on-the-runway-the-m...

I might have taken my laptop bag in such a case out of habit before reading these stories, not so much now.

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