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Updates to H-1B

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Re: Updates to H-1B

#731

Post by eigendreams »

colechristensen wrote: post #505
dcrazy wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You must be a US citizen to work for my company. No "US Persons" (visa holders) or foreigners allowed. This is illegal under IRCA unless another law or government contract mandates it. [1] If every single role at your company requires a Secret clearance, then I question how separate “your part of the company” really is from the part that makes weapons. [1] https://www.eeoc.gov/national-origin-discrimination

It is required by law. Most likely through prohibitions for "exporting" defense technology, which can be very broad. "Exporting" can consist of having a casual conversation with a non-"US Person" or having a document visible on your desk. "Secret" classification is really mild, about 5 million people have one. >The law prohibits employers from hiring only U.S. citizens or lawful permanent residents unless required to…

You are referring to ITAR. Under ITAR, permanent residents are considered US Persons and not subject to export controls. Clearance is a totally different thing that people often confuse with ITAR, which is only granted to US citizens, and though it is possible to grant something somewhat like clearance to non us citizens, it is almost never done.

Edit: Ah I see you are not disagreeing with what I said at all. Apologies, I cannot count the number of times I have seen in reddit and here, where people confuse ITAR with clearance.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#732

Post by VirusNewbie »

strongpigeon wrote: post #205
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #161

A supposed shortage of qualified US applicants for tech jobs, especially software developers, doesn't jibe with the huge numbers of US developers currently looking for work, including highly experienced older workers suffering from age discrimination. I'd be surprised if more than 5-10% of H-1B positions are ones where the hiring company has even looked for US applicants.

Good news: the USCIS makes this data available! [0] Google, Microsoft and Meta definitely look for (and hire!) US applicants. One can reasonably have a gripe with the consulting companies on there (Infosys, Tata, Cognizant, etc.) but they don't represent 90-95% of H-1B issued. [0] https://www.uscis.gov/tools/reports-and-studies/h-1b-employe...

I have also met teams at FAANG where a foreign born boss’s team is 90% or more H1-Bs from their origin country. Kind of suspicious.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#733

Post by xingped »

FL33TW00D wrote: post #208

Surprised by all the negativity here. The USA benefits enormously from skilled immigration: "doubling the size of the US H1B visa program increases US and EU growth by 4% in the long-run" From a recent paper here: https://academic.oup.com/qje/advance-article-abstract/doi/10...

Really? You're surprised? You're surprised that a country and industry continuing to suffer from ongoing layoffs after layoffs, both stealth and honest, could possibly be negative about their government saying "yeah, let's bring in _more_ foreign workers while our own citizens can't find or keep their jobs"? The audacity!

Re: Updates to H-1B

#734

Post by RHSeeger »

snakeyjake wrote: post #342
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #161

A supposed shortage of qualified US applicants for tech jobs, especially software developers, doesn't jibe with the huge numbers of US developers currently looking for work, including highly experienced older workers suffering from age discrimination. I'd be surprised if more than 5-10% of H-1B positions are ones where the hiring company has even looked for US applicants.

My employer cannot hire H-1Bs. You must be a US citizen to work for my company. No "US Persons" (visa holders) or foreigners allowed. You have to be eligible for a Secret security clearance. You don't have to get one if you don't want to as there is usually plenty of uncleared work to go around, but you have to be eligible in case that goes away and we need to put you in for a clearance. We cannot find qualified appl…

> We won't re-teach linear algebra to a developer applicant but we will pay a tech writer to go to school nights/weekends to get a degree in engineering (me, I did that).

Why? Linear Algebra is certainly something that can be learned faster than a degree in engineering. I expect the average software developer (someone that can understand algorithms) can achieve competency in less than a semester's worth of time. If someone is a good developer, learning specific skills sets for the domain is pretty normal.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#735

Post by intended »

tgma wrote: post #479
snakeyjake wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My employer cannot hire H-1Bs. You must be a US citizen to work for my company. No "US Persons" (visa holders) or foreigners allowed. You have to be eligible for a Secret security clearance. You don't have to get one if you don't want to as there is usually plenty of uncleared work to go around, but you have to be eligible in case that goes away and we need to put you in for a clearance. We cannot find qualified appl…

> We cannot find qualified applicants > No, we don’t pay as much as Meta. So, essentially, you are seeking special treatment from US citizens. I’m not saying this is always unreasonable, but you’re in the territory of a centrally planned economic decision, and in the US philosophy that is supposed to be done minimally. Maybe the right thing is for your company to shut down or change their line of business, freeing up…

IF Meta is the benchmark for “good” pay, then this is nuts.

There are far more people who need code, than just the people at FAANG companies.

Are you saying that these firms are economically uncompetitive, with META, and should shut shop?

Re: Updates to H-1B

#736

Post by m00x »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #161

A supposed shortage of qualified US applicants for tech jobs, especially software developers, doesn't jibe with the huge numbers of US developers currently looking for work, including highly experienced older workers suffering from age discrimination. I'd be surprised if more than 5-10% of H-1B positions are ones where the hiring company has even looked for US applicants.

I do coding interviews 2-3x/week for a private, but large company.

We do not lack candidates, but we lack qualified candidates. Most people that I interview have no clue how software actually works. Most are leetcode monkeys or just really awful.

We mostly hire seniors because of the industry we're in, but we've started hiring interns and juniors due to the lack of decent candidates.

We'd love to hire US candidates, but there's just a huge lack.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#737

Post by ggm »

Maybe it's just me, but the vast amount of illegal and semi legal migrant workers being exploited suggests what the US needs is a visa system for unskilled labour, not for skilled.

Why does everyone think the cure to the worlds ills is to have more doctors and not more toilet cleaners? People can die from dirty hands on doorknobs faster than from smoking: Basic sanitation work, food work is important. If current US residents won't do this stuff, pick food, clean up, then isn't the answer to bring them in or do we really prefer to have them live in a twilight, semi-illegal world? Really?

Re: Updates to H-1B

#738

Post by RHSeeger »

Spooky23 wrote: post #664
ponector wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So many contradictions! You pay well, but not so much. You search for qualified applicants but can hire a student. You require linear algebra but ok with technical writer. Looks like your managers don't know who they need to hire or don't want to really hire.

Defense contractors are usually located in out of the way places. If you work for the USAF Lab in Rome, NY, you make less than a Facebook intern, but the only guy richer than you in town is the state trooper with overtime. They are also stable gigs with good benefits.

Yeah, but you also have to live in Rome, NY. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to live in a major city; but being _near_ one is pretty handy. And if the job doesn't pan out, then being in Rome, NY means your options for the next job are extremely limited. Unless your family is ok with uprooting and moving (probably _again_), the pay to move to Rome for a job would need to be catastrophically large to lure me there.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#739

Post by m00x »

diob wrote: post #724
beambot wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, we pay well. Prove it. What city are you in, and what is total comp for software engineer & hardware engineer with 20 years of experience? I worked in national defense. It was a pain in the ass: shit pay, worst politics, massive tolerance for incompetence & mediocrity, meeting hell, and secrecy (necessary, but "need to know" gatekeeping wasnt at times).

Yeah, it just sounds like the ole "no one wants to work anymore" line when really it's you're not paying enough.

We pay $400-700k for L4-L6 and we have a hard time finding qualified candidates.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#740

Post by maeil »

kqgnkqgn wrote: post #120

Seem like sensible changes, though more is still needed. Requiring H1B holders to leave the country to renew paperwork is an insane anachronism. The per-country caps also seem like a throwback to the early 1900's era immigration exclusion policies. Re: the concerns over "immigrants taking our jobs!". As a native-born American working in a large tech company today - the threat is very clearly not from H1B's and other…

> Re: the concerns over "immigrants taking our jobs!". As a native-born American working in a large tech company today - the threat is very clearly not from H1B's and other visas. The threat to American tech jobs is when US tech companies choose to build out offices in lower cost of living countries (and I'm very much including Europe in that, I think that's even a bigger problem).

> It's much much better for America if tech companies hire workers in the US, regardless of whether they are citizens. Americans are eligible for those jobs, and that money stays within our economy. Versus employing workers elsewhere, where American's can't easily be hired, and those resources leave the US.

Makes me wonder how many people gladly support this while at the same time clamoring against the EU's DMA and other regulations and fines it imposes on SV companies.

What you're saying is of course absolutely true! I like how plainly you've stated it, because the directness makes clear to people just how awful of a deal it is for the EU and other countries where US tech companies make enormous profits without hiring any significant number of locals.

I've lived in both the EU which suffers from the above, as well as a place where protectionism and barriers helped strongly restrain US tech and "artificially" give opportunity to local players. The latter has worked out so much better for every party involved except US tech.

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