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Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

theguardian.com

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Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#731

Post by unsupp0rted »

hnpolicestate wrote: post #728

It's hard to respond to some of the commentary here. We truly exist mentally on different planets. The West wants Telegram destroyed because the platform permits the sharing of information and ideas that are in opposition to Western domestic and foreign policy(Israel, Ukraine, China etc). This is in addition to the West not having a backdoor to Telegram and not having it's servers on Western soil. Why do you want you…

> Why do you want your country to control what you can see, read or say?

No no, I want my country to control what other people can see, read or say. Not me: I'm a good person.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#732

Post by toofy »

ranndino wrote: post #551
a0123 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, the legislation in France and in the EU that is most likely behind this arrest is that companies have to at least try to do some moderation. There is an understanding that not everything can be moderated (obviously, the entire Internet would be banned otherwise) but there has to be a genuine attempt. Which every company does more or less. The fact that Telegram doesn't reach this extremely low, very low…

Telegram is not a behemoth like Facebook so doesn't have their resources to moderate everything. Even Facebook isn't particularly good at it. They mostly rely on software which often produces false positives. This arrest is completely preposterous and is just an attempt to get Durov to play ball with France's privacy destroying authorities.

lately when i see arguments like yours one thing keeps popping into my head. i’m not sure how i feel about the following yet but it’s been on my mind a bit for the past couple of years:

if someone is incapable of making good faith genuine attempts to mitigate against atrocious things happening openly in the property they control, then isn’t this fairly solid evidence they’re just not capable of owning that property? if they make such an excuse, it would seem to me they’re either too irresponsible or just plain incompetent.

again, i’m not sure how i feel about the implications of this, but the whole “we just don’t have the resources” feels like a cowards excuse rather than reality—particularly as someone already pointed out, they seem to gather their wits to make a sizable dent when it’s spam.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#733

Post by the_third_wave »

T-A wrote: post #79
chucke1992 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't believe there are any western nations that want non-locally-backdoored messaging of any sort But that's what exactly they want no? EU is literally implementing a regulation that will allow to "circumvent end-to-end encryption to address child sexual abuse material". I believe it failed to pass recently, but they will try again - and nothing stops countries to implement it independently. I think France is th…

You might be surprised to learn who's doing the pushing: https://www.wired.com/story/europes-moral-crusader-lays-down... https://www.statewatch.org/news/2024/july/police-should-have...

Ylva Johansson, a "former" Communist who joined the social democratic party when that turned out to be a more sure-fire way to gain power is decidedly not the Swedish government. It it people like her and the policies they implemented which pushed the "Sweden Democrats" (a somewhat conservative nationalist party, their program resembles they of the social democratic party in the 1950's-1960's) to become the second-biggest party in the country.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#735

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #671
sunaookami wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever since von der Leyen became president. Typical for her since she also tried the same shit in Germany.

The censorship initiatives in the west largely originate from the US „Blob“, the amalgamation of the State Department, Pentagon, CIA and the soft-power NGOs. Mike Benz, a former insider, spends his days explaining how this works. This is not the best introduction that he has done, but it is the latest space he recorded on the Telegram affair: https://x.com/mikebenzcyber/status/1827514567884255430 Update : there will…

Recording of „The Geopolitics of Telegram & who is really after Pavel Durov“:

https://x.com/mikebenzcyber/status/1827580931974029821

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#736

Post by unsupp0rted »

sgc wrote: post #370
vessenes wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you read my clumsy sentence backwards. They absolutely want to get in the middle of messaging, all of them. This is behind many of the calls for E2E interop as well -- all the proposals I'm aware of call for termination somewhere in the middle; you can imagine who'd like to be at that termination middle point. This is why Apple will not "move over" to RCS, ever, as a first class transport -- it's fundamentall…

So just give me an apple messaging client on my non-apple devices. It is insanely, practically criminally, anti-social to lock your messaging system into your devices alone. It's like the Joker is running the business decisions over there. Who cares, let's just watch the world burn.

> It is insanely, practically criminally, anti-social to lock your messaging system into your devices alone.

Why? I'm allowed to connect two or more tin cans by a string. Why can't Apple?

If you don't have a tin can, then you can't join.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#737

Post by eimrine »

stogot wrote: post #431
vhiremath4 wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah very interesting. Thanks for making that distinction! To me, I’m wondering at what critical mass of people should you need to provide a back door to the government? Is it 2? 3? 100? 1000? Are the number of people the right indicator here? Genuinely curious of people’s thoughts. I haven’t though too deeply about this.

You seem to assume there is a “need” to backdoor the people’s communication. Liberty of the people assumes there is not a need nor a right of the State to do so

No that was sarcasm to GP.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#738

Post by happosai »

echelon wrote: post #93
gtvwill wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But here's the thing. If your app is known to be uses heavily by criminals ranging from Pedo's to drug dealers. You are liable. You run a carrier service. Much like the owner of omegle found out, yes you do have a duty of care. You can't just provide a service that knowingly provides a platform to criminal activity and do jack shit. You live in fairytale land if you think you can.

E2EE should be a human right. Period. There are other ways to capture and ensnare criminals. Sacrificing our privacy for the "greater good" is a bridge too far. As one counter point, think about all of the completely fine human behaviors that instantly become kompromat when the powers have access to your every communication. That is way more dangerous to democracy, freedom, and liberty than a slightly smaller chance…

Perhaps, but Telegram is not really a E2EE chat app, but rather a social media. Like 90% of Telegram use (at least in my circles) is channels which are not E2EE on Telegram.

This arrest is not about E2EE.

The arrest is about how much responsibility social media platforms have about the content posted on them.

There is no good answers to that question, and the debate of topic online is utterly useless.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#739

Post by lmm »

Canada wrote: post #664
lmm wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal also has a long history of shitting on their competitors with extremely questionable arguments, if not quite to the same extent as Telegram. The issues at stake here are far more important. Encrypted messengers had better hang together or they will surely hang separately.

Really? Examples?

Look at their blog posts about PGP (one of them is pretty much "when I get a PGP-encrypted email it's always from a weirdo" - not any kind of technical argument, just a straight-up smear), or about Matrix.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#740

Post by fahrenheit154 »

sega_sai wrote: post #322

A bunch of people in comments here seem to misunderstand what telegram is. It is not just a messaging app, it is essentially a platform like twitter, with channels, hundreds of thousands of subscribers to those. While I fully support E2EE communication with no back-doors, I think it is perfectly fair for governments to have some control to take down large channels that are clearly against the law. I do not know the t…

I am long done with commenting on this platform, as most of Russian people, who cannot write here (and most of other western internet forums) what they think. I will make an exception in this case, however.

1. "I think it is perfectly fair for governments to take down large channels that are clearly against the law"

Telegram obviously acts upon such requests Here in Italy I cannot access the channels of RIA and Sputnik, obviously a request was made to Telegram on behalf of EU /Italy, and Telegram complied.

2. I think that you, in your US bubble, which you THINK guarantees free speech, misunderstand yourself what Telegram is. Right now, it is the ONLY wide audience platform in the world, where Russian people can freely (as opposed to, say, HN) write what they really think. And it is true as much for the people who are "pro", as for the people who are "against Putin", (I use these nonsense labels to adapt what I write to the general american level of "understanding" Russia).

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