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Kim Dotcom's extradition to the U.S. given green light by New Zealand

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Re: Kim Dotcom's extradition to the U.S. given green light by New Zealand

#731

Post by stevenjgarner »

LouisSayers wrote: post #600
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New Zealand is for all practical purposes a USA protectorate. If you want to break USA law don't do it in a country that is dependent on the USA.

It's really not though. Although NZ has agreements with Aus and the US, you'll find on the ground that kiwis are actually not super fond of the US. We won't let US nuclear ships into our waters, and we actually have quite a good relationship with China. NZ is also quite self sufficient in many ways and so far from other countries that it's fairly sheltered from potential conflict.

It really IS though. I am both a NZ and US citizen, and I am well aware that the Bretton Woods Accord is alive and well (although I agree with Peter Zeihan that its days are numbered).

Re: Kim Dotcom's extradition to the U.S. given green light by New Zealand

#732

Post by oceanplexian »

preaching5271 wrote: post #24

I appreciate Kim Dotcom for running MegaUpload and later Mega, in a time when the internet was younger and wilder. Also for his pirate spirit and "stick it to the man" attitude. But everything has a limit, specifically his resistance against the law, even if he hid it behind virtues. I think it's clear for everybody that one cannot get away with this kind of stuff, once governments get involved. Isn't it wiser to sto…

> Isn't it wiser to stop at some point, and find other stuff to do, even if all your nerves say otherwise?

The problem is that government doesn’t have a line, that line is defined by the resistance it faces. Today it might be people sharing MP3s, tomorrow they will come after you for hosting a parody of mickey mouse. 10 years from now they’ll be busting down doors for sharing illegal memes (Seems to already be the case in the UK).

Sitting by passively and praying that the system will come to its senses is a fool’s errand. Copyright holders, the government, and powerful interests are entities that have no problem playing dirty.

Re: Kim Dotcom's extradition to the U.S. given green light by New Zealand

#733

Post by Krasnol »

preaching5271 wrote: post #24

I appreciate Kim Dotcom for running MegaUpload and later Mega, in a time when the internet was younger and wilder. Also for his pirate spirit and "stick it to the man" attitude. But everything has a limit, specifically his resistance against the law, even if he hid it behind virtues. I think it's clear for everybody that one cannot get away with this kind of stuff, once governments get involved. Isn't it wiser to sto…

> Also for his pirate spirit and "stick it to the man" attitude.

When the internet was even younger, and he called himself Kimble, he sold out other pirates to save his own ass.

His attitude is of a selfish and greedy person. Nothing to be admired.

Re: Kim Dotcom's extradition to the U.S. given green light by New Zealand

#734

Post by mike_d »

kaliqt wrote: post #704
preaching5271 wrote: post #24

I appreciate Kim Dotcom for running MegaUpload and later Mega, in a time when the internet was younger and wilder. Also for his pirate spirit and "stick it to the man" attitude. But everything has a limit, specifically his resistance against the law, even if he hid it behind virtues. I think it's clear for everybody that one cannot get away with this kind of stuff, once governments get involved. Isn't it wiser to sto…

This is the wrong position to take. The government is wrong, and a bully, the answer is not to give them what they want.

How is the government wrong? He is being charged with money laundering and wire fraud, both things that require pretty substantial paper trails to prove in court.

I think enough time has passed that I can say this openly: I worked for an ad network that was used by MegaUpload. Most of the traffic from his site was fraudulent bot traffic. Mysterious advertisers would repeatedly rebuy ad placements that were clearly not generating any returns. There was definitely things that didn't add up to the point I would error on the side of believing the government on this one.

Re: Kim Dotcom's extradition to the U.S. given green light by New Zealand

#735

Post by lesuorac »

vasco wrote: post #237
vessenes wrote: post #103

A fair amount of “this is fine, governments enforce IP laws and that’s a public good” vibes in here, which is all a very reasonable perspective. I’d argue Kim was too successful and too unlikeable at the end of the day, and that was probably his downfall. Toward the end, MEGA had transitioned to actually partnering with hip hop artists for distribution. The US has a long history of IP rights holders criminalizing new…

One thing you learn over the years is that people make up everything. I can't recall the exact quote but the character Frank Underwood once said something to the effect of "the law is the law, but the law is people and I know people". Meaning he could control the situation regardless. The opposite also happens and you can see cases like this or Shkreli, Dotcom and others where they think being edgy on top of minor cr…

At least for Shkreli he wasn't wrong. Massively increasing the price for a drug is legal.

> [1] On August 4, 2017, the trial jury found Shkreli guilty on two counts of securities fraud and one count of conspiracy to commit securities fraud, and not guilty on five other counts which included wire fraud.

Granted, the case started in 2015 probably in response to him hiking the prices in 2014 but the thing he was being an edge lord about isn't what directly did him in. However, Capone didn't go to prison for murder either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Shkreli#Criminal_convic...

Re: Kim Dotcom's extradition to the U.S. given green light by New Zealand

#736

Post by deanCommie »

gengwyn wrote: post #412
vasco wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing you learn over the years is that people make up everything. I can't recall the exact quote but the character Frank Underwood once said something to the effect of "the law is the law, but the law is people and I know people". Meaning he could control the situation regardless. The opposite also happens and you can see cases like this or Shkreli, Dotcom and others where they think being edgy on top of minor cr…

Sometimes this translates even down to the individual level. I've watched a lot of police bodycam videos and it's surprising how many people make their situation worse by being loud obnoxious tightwads when calmly answering questions and handing over your license would have you on your way in 5 minutes.

I get what you're saying, but being an obnoxious tightwad isn't actually against the rules, and it's not OK that there are some societies in the world where being an obnoxious tightwad towards a force ostensibly tasked with PROTECTING their fellow citizens (including the obnoxious one) will take this as a cue to 1) violate your civil liberties/rights, and/or 2) commit bodily harm to your person, and then 3) get away with it primarily without consequence.

I am scared of the police. In the rare times I have to interact with them I am overwhelmingly polite and cautious because I know that they have the ability to fuck up my day, and maybe my life.

But that's a HORRIBLE status quo. That is a bug in our society that needs to be eradicated.

Plus, I've got basically every privilege that exists under the sun, so luckily I have to encounter this problem only very rarely. I can't imagine what it must be like if you have the misfortune of being born in the wrong place or looking the wrong way, such that you have automatically tense/hostile encounters with the police continuously. At some point it must be exhausting to try to maintain this composure the entire time.

Re: Kim Dotcom's extradition to the U.S. given green light by New Zealand

#737

Post by Taniwha »

_djo_ wrote: post #153
Taniwha wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He fought it all the way and ran out of options, we have a more right leaning government now who want to suck up to the US

What did the government have to do with this? Sounds like he ran out of appeals through the court system, which is independent of the government of the day.

There's a minister who still has to approve/deny it

Re: Kim Dotcom's extradition to the U.S. given green light by New Zealand

#738

Post by sushisource »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #476
gengwyn wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes this translates even down to the individual level. I've watched a lot of police bodycam videos and it's surprising how many people make their situation worse by being loud obnoxious tightwads when calmly answering questions and handing over your license would have you on your way in 5 minutes.

> people make their situation worse I'd still be more likely to say the officer is making their situation worse. Take away the false dichotomy of loud and obnoxious vs calm and compliant and consider someone who doesn't answer irrelevant questions and is waiting for the officer to do their job (calm and not compliant). That person might have their situation worsened by the officer who thinks the person they're talkin…

This kind of exactly misses the point the comment you're replying to is making. The point isn't that just complying and handing over your info is the ideal goal. The point is that, pragmatically speaking, it's a lot easier to just do that and move on with your life than making a big scene about standing up for your ideals - because A) You're not going to change shit in that situation anyway and B) It's just going to make it harder for you.

> Something a schoolyard bully would say to the kid who's too small to defend themself but refuses to comply.

Yeah, probably right. But, also, yeah, easier sometimes to just appease the bully and move on with life.

Re: Kim Dotcom's extradition to the U.S. given green light by New Zealand

#739

Post by Taniwha »

halyconWays wrote: post #443
Taniwha wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He fought it all the way and ran out of options, we have a more right leaning government now who want to suck up to the US

>ran out of options He'd have one more option to fight tyranny, if your government didn't disarm the populace. Imagine being yanked out of your home country by a foreign power and their corporate overlords with the prospect of living the rest of your life in third-world prison conditions, for the crime of allegedly reducing their balance sheets from $550B per year to $545B per year.

Our populace is pretty heavily armed, hunting is pretty ingrained in the national psyche. No one's arguing for getting rid of hunting rifles. Pistols and semiautomatics, things designed to kill people are illegal and most of us are quite happy with that, especially after we had a foreign terrorist kill 100 innocent people in a mosque.

Re: Kim Dotcom's extradition to the U.S. given green light by New Zealand

#740

Post by quitit »

treprinum wrote: post #207

Didn't YouTube get popular on pirated content first? What was the main difference of the initial phase of YouTube and MegaUpload? They both went legal later.

It was definitely used that way, early YouTube had a download button
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