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Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

news.patreon.com

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Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#731

Post by petre »

echelon wrote: post #679
Dylan16807 wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of the apps you're complaining about are paying 30% to Apple? Hotels and restaurants definitely aren't. Also a lot of companies make apps so they can get more tracking info. That value doesn't come from the Apple Store. It's things like games that really get an advantage from being native and in the store. And that's largely a red queen's race, they need to stay on top and they'll pay out the nose to be the…

> How many of the apps you're complaining about are paying 30% to Apple? Hotels and restaurants definitely aren't. If the CEOs could sign a petition that had a sure chance of antitrust action against Apple's fees, every single one of them would be itching to sign.

Maybe s/he doesn't want to waste their time doing that and instead the company is politely signaling to their users that they're being charged junk fees by continuing to use the iOS app. Which is quite fair and transparent behaviour. Why take on Apple when you can correctly inform your users and push them to give Apple the boot?

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#732

Post by caf »

danShumway wrote: post #638
gus_massa wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One important feature is that in the Apple store the consumer is sure that the unsubscribe button works immediately. Not weird tricks to keep you subscribed forever.

I hate when companies try to draw out or sidestep attempts to unsubscribe, it's a huge issue with subscription services. I'm really encouraged about recent pushes to ban this kind of behavior. That being said, I've just checked and Patreon does not appear to block or sidestep attempts to unsubscribe from a creator. It's two clicks, you hit "cancel membership" and then the confirm button. I'm open to claims that Apple…

This of course makes sense, because Patreon's incentives are the same as Apple's here: they don't want to trick you into paying more for one subscription, because they want you to be confident to subscribe to other creators on their site.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#733

Post by tourmalinetaco »

soulofmischief wrote: post #689
cortesoft wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? Well, there is a simple way to test this... just get rid of the Patreon iOS app and just use a web version. Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? I wish fewer companies had apps. I don't need an app for everything. I don'…

It's also an issue of onboarding and discoverability. Creators would see a marked reduction in subscriptions if Patreon was not allowed placement in the app store.

Why? What makes the app itself so attractive? Do Apple users not know what Safari is, or how to type in a link?

And it should be noted most Patreon users find their way there via YouTube, which itself automatically opens links to Safari, where Patreon can be subscribed to easily.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#734

Post by gretch »

EMIRELADERO wrote: post #549
gretch wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple users should be able to decide what software and stores run on the device that they own. They do decide, right when they buy their phone.

You know that's not what the OP meant. "Apple users should be able to decide what software and stores run on the device that they own. " It should be able to be decided while owning it, not before. The point is that a phone that doesn't give the user the same level of control over the software that the manufacturer has simply should not exist. It should not be left to market forces.

Yeah I know that’s not what OP meant. The problem is OP is not fully thinking things through with principles.

All these “problems” with walled gardens are well known and consenting adults keep opting into it time and again.

I think it’s arrogant to look at a system you aren’t even participating in (can we assume op doesn’t have an iPhone) and say “no those people are doing it wrong”

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#735

Post by tourmalinetaco »

beeboobaa3 wrote: post #666
cortesoft wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? Well, there is a simple way to test this... just get rid of the Patreon iOS app and just use a web version. Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? I wish fewer companies had apps. I don't need an app for everything. I don'…

> Why does patreon need its own app? Why can't it just be web based? because apple gimps their web browser capabilities & performance to incentivize developers to enter the walled garden

While true in most cases (for anyone who disagrees look at PWAs being restricted in EU), Patreon’s app sucks butt and is honestly a worst experience in most ways than their mobile website anyway.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#736

Post by tourmalinetaco »

boredpeter wrote: post #704
lapcat wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their App Store is the only way people get apps on their device and if a search for ‘patreon’ in the App Store returns nothing, that’s a lot of confused or angry people that are going to wonder what their monthly bill is for. I just searched the App Store for Patreon: The top hit was an ad for Ashley Madison. Seriously. The second hit was the Patreon app. The third hit was ChatGPT for some reason. But if the Patreo…

Isn’t the whole point of the 30% apple tax to make sure their App Store isn’t full of garbage?

Yep, interesting how that massive cut of revenue doesn’t do a thing to actually help consumers, who as a consequence are shunted with the bill anyway.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#737

Post by olyjohn »

EricE wrote: post #320
akudha wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot topic of discussion where? Amongst developers, right? How many non-developer Apple users are aware of Apple’s shenanigans? I doubt not many. Even if the end users are aware and accept it, that doesn’t make Apple right. We as a society accept a lot of things - from the security theatre at airports (last week, I saw photos of passengers taken, for domestic flights) to Amazon workers peeing in bottles. As long as we…

https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-plans-new-fees-rest... https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2024/01/17/apples-... https://www.insightpartners.com/ideas/do-you-have-to-pay-the... Yes, there is far more discussion in tech/nerd spaces, but it's also being talked about in non-tech areas too.

Well no kidding. But posting 3 links isn't really evidence that the "normies" of the world have any understanding of what is going on.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#738

Post by gretch »

brigadier132 wrote: post #531
gretch wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple users should be able to decide what software and stores run on the device that they own. They do decide, right when they buy their phone.

And since we live in a democracy with laws where Apple's current arrangement can be voted to be made illegal, we can also decide to force Apple to open their device ecosystem (which may already be illegal).

Yeah we could. But just because we do, doesn’t mean it’s the right thing or the smart thing to do. Once upon a time alcohol was voted illegal and even now marijuana is federally illegal.

I personally think it’s a shame when the government takes something interesting and working and makes it illegal. Patreon could easily not be an app on iOS, but they really want that money, so now the government has to make laws on apple. Doesn’t make sense to me

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#739

Post by shiroiushi »

brigadier132 wrote: post #531
gretch wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple users should be able to decide what software and stores run on the device that they own. They do decide, right when they buy their phone.

And since we live in a democracy with laws where Apple's current arrangement can be voted to be made illegal, we can also decide to force Apple to open their device ecosystem (which may already be illegal).

In theory, you could. In reality, however, you're not going to. Maybe the EU will, but it won't happen in the US.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#740

Post by olyjohn »

tourmalinetaco wrote: post #733
soulofmischief wrote: post #689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also an issue of onboarding and discoverability. Creators would see a marked reduction in subscriptions if Patreon was not allowed placement in the app store.

Why? What makes the app itself so attractive? Do Apple users not know what Safari is, or how to type in a link? And it should be noted most Patreon users find their way there via YouTube, which itself automatically opens links to Safari, where Patreon can be subscribed to easily.

No, they actually don't know how to type in a link. Most people still don't know how URLs work. People still type in Facebook to the Google search box.
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