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Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

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Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#731

Post by ryukoposting »

bgun wrote: post #479
ryukoposting wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my point of view, Uber and DD were always going to head in that direction because by any objective measure, they are worse than the solution that already existed. The introduction of a middleman created new costs for drivers, customers, and restaurants alike, yet it's actually worse at delivering food than the conventional "drivers work for the restaurant" model. Sure, you get one website where you can see all t…

Did you ever try getting groceries/food (other than pizza) delivered before the apps? Uber didn’t replace a better option, they made it literally possible to get these services in many places where it wasn’t an option at all. And in areas like Manhattan, where city cabs and delivery options abound - the the fact that many (most?) people still use UberEats/DD is instructive. The value of convenience is significant. I…

> before the apps

You're right, it sucked. Here's the thing: we can have the shiny, sleek ordering system without the stupid parts of the Uber/GrubHub/whatever business model. You've probably used Toast before.

> in areas like Manhattan, where city cabs and delivery options abound - the the fact that many (most?) people still use UberEats/DD is instructive

I would have leaned towards "destructive" but I get your point.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#732

Post by op00to »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #331
op00to wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Target allegedly has such good video capabilities they can recognize repeat thieves, keep a record of what they steal, and wait until it reaches felony level after multiple trips before they flag a person to be detained. All in super duper high definition.

All that money down the drain now that people just wear hoodies and facemasks to shoplift

I think it’s deeper than that. Someone with a sheisty is gonna attract attention no matter what. The main idea is to combat organized shoplifting rings rather than - for example - addicts stealing small amounts to get more drugs.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#733

Post by op00to »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #604
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://phys.org/news/2012-09-tracking-people-gait-signature...

That's not going to get a felony conviction.

They don’t convict based on the video or whatever. They learn their patterns and catch them the next time they come in and steal. Loss prevention associates know most of the usual suspects on sight.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#734

Post by account-5 »

Aloisius wrote: post #684
account-5 wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said any of those were...

What unskilled labor were you referring to a brickie using then?

The brickie's "laborer", I literally said it in the post you replied to; the person who moves bricks, makes up the muck, generally keeps the brickie supplied with materials.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#735

Post by ufmace »

Terr_ wrote: post #376
geodel wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how come everything with an app is so much more expensive? After ton of investment investors are finally looking for returns now. And consumers have decided convenience reigns supreme. Right from the SAAS products to daily breakfast customers there is lot of premium on convenience.

> After ton of investment investors are finally looking for returns now. We need a quippy phrase for this, but unfortunately "Pump and Dump" is already taken for a kind of stock-market manipulation. Instead, I would like to coin/nominate "Tease and Squeeze". First consumers are teased by the idea that the disruptive new service has invented a magic new secret to low prices and great value... But after the company as…

> "Tease and Squeeze"

I for one like it

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#736

Post by account-5 »

gruez wrote: post #622
account-5 wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First I'm pivoting now I'm trying to derail, when all I've done is answer you question; but to make it plain: yes, it's subjective. How else are certain skills valued more that others? There's no objective measurement to these. Comparing the skills of one disapline to another doesn't work, like apple to oranges.

The objective measurement for "skill" is how much training/experience/talent is required to carry out a particular job. Sure, there might be some fuzziness/ambiguity to this, and there's various degrees of freedom to how you compute a "skill score" or whatever (eg. what's more skilled an accountant or an auditor?), but it's hard to argue that a burger flipper is more skilled than an accountant. You can make the argum…

Yeah I don't think we're going to agree about skills in this, especially since I'd consider usefulness as a main objective measurement of skill. Using your "objective" measures could lead to a juggler of knives having the same level of skill as your accountant.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#737

Post by Dylan16807 »

op00to wrote: post #733
Dylan16807 wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not going to get a felony conviction.

They don’t convict based on the video or whatever. They learn their patterns and catch them the next time they come in and steal. Loss prevention associates know most of the usual suspects on sight.

Learning patterns doesn't get you a court-viable record of what they steal over multiple visits to push them over a specific money threshold.

So the most the gait-tracking computer can do is alert that a flagged person might have entered and needs to be strongly identified in some other way. But if loss prevention already knows them on sight then that system is minimally useful.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#738

Post by Dylan16807 »

mlrtime wrote: post #729
Dylan16807 wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no "factual" definition of "enough" as "enough" is subjective. I agree. Which is why "enough" is not an objective threshold of 100% of surplus value. > I'm also not sure what you're trying to argue. I'm arguing that "less than 100% means not enough" is an incorrect statement. That's all. The bulk of your post isn't relevant to what I was saying. (To be extra clear, that's my paraphrase of this line: "in a v…

I'm following this thread and still don't understand what you think "enough" is. The person you are replying to makes sense to me. This is just a fyi when trying to write out your thoughts.

That is because I have not given a definition for it. I don't have a specific one in mind.

I just think "100% of surplus value" is a wrong definition, so using that definition to argue that "in a very literal sense, pay can never be enough" is a very flawed argument.

I don't think I need to offer my own definition to claim that, do I? They later said it's subjective, which seems to favor my claim.

Does that clear things up? Is there a reason you thought I was trying to give a definition, and failing? Is there something wrong with my argument?

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#739

Post by Dylan16807 »

mlrtime wrote: post #730
Dylan16807 wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think any of this makes what I said less true. There's a lot you can learn in many basic service jobs, and become much more effective than if you don't learn it. But if the standard is "onboarding", then both are quick. > In 30 days, the new welder probably has learned how not to set himself on fire, blind himself, fill his lungs with poisonous gasses, etc. I am not a welder, but I've had some welding safety…

You both are talking around each other I feel. In any job there is a spectrum from bare minimum to a master. This goes for welding and baristas. Is someone who pushes a button on a Nespresso a barista? If I go get a soldering iron am I a welder? You overlay the normal distribution of all baristas and welders and look at the difficulty in learning various skills. I'm sure they are not exactly equal.

That sounds like a fun idea in theory, but in practice that distribution would require hours of research per job, or more, and I'm not aware of any source that publishes that sort of information. So it doesn't give me a way to sort jobs into "skilled" and "unskilled". Or to give them a reliable 1-10 rank on how skilled they are.

I can be pretty sure welder beats barista, but by how much, how it relates to other jobs, how we set various bars, that's all a lot more difficult.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#740

Post by rwbt »

imperfect_light wrote: post #713
rwbt wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad it's gone for good, if the process really works like how it's described in the article. Thousands of poor souls doing terrible pointless menial work just so that a few entitled customers can avoid the clunky self checkout (eww- the horror!). The entitlement of the west has no bounds really.

My first thought is that this was an attempt at satire, but now I realize it's a privileged Western person who has never traveled to a poor country and thinks that if these workers weren't labeling data they'd be self-actualized DJs or crypto investors.

I think your first instinct is the correct one. But I don't buy the argument that these jobs are somehow empowering them.

My criticism is towards the entitlement of shoppers who think self checkout is too clunky and having to interact with a cashier is too annoying but expect an army of people to work behind the scenes (be it anywhere in the world) to make it easy for them.

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