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Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

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Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#731

Post by naijaboiler »

valenterry wrote: post #705
naijaboiler wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno. My mom’s heating bills in Indiana using heat pumps with auxiliary electric heaters was >$700 month at electricity costing 11c/kwh. I live in Massachusetts where my electricity cost 33c/kwh. So if I used my mom’s heater to heat a house of similar size, my heating bill will be $2k/month. My heating gas bill is under 120/month. I understand a bulk of that cost comes from the aux resistive electric heater. But f…

I don't think so. Check those measures for some example heatpump: https://www.eurovent-certification.com/en/catalog/program/ce... They are not from the manufacturer but from an independent service that is used by various states that are members of the eu. As you can see, at -7 degrees celsius, the COP is still almost 4. So even at that temperature, this heatpump is still about twice as afficient as burning gas direct…

Keep talking theoretical bounds, while I post real, not theoretical, dollars

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#732

Post by crazygringo »

huytersd wrote: post #730
crazygringo wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to run it overnight. But I do set a timer for mine to turn back on an hour before I get up. Because exactly -- it's not blasting hot air, it's merely circulating warm air. An hour beforehand works fine for mine though.

Do you’ll not run your heat at night when it’s the coldest?

Just in the bedroom. Don't need it anywhere else.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#733

Post by valenterry »

naijaboiler wrote: post #731
valenterry wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so. Check those measures for some example heatpump: https://www.eurovent-certification.com/en/catalog/program/ce... They are not from the manufacturer but from an independent service that is used by various states that are members of the eu. As you can see, at -7 degrees celsius, the COP is still almost 4. So even at that temperature, this heatpump is still about twice as afficient as burning gas direct…

Keep talking theoretical bounds, while I post real, not theoretical, dollars

Yeah I get what you are saying. And sure, if the installation or usage is suboptimal then you won't get high efficiency.

And it's also true that it's much easier to use a heatpump wrongly compared to e.g. gas heating.

On the other hand it's also not black magic and the more people install and use it, the less mistakes will be made.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#734

Post by ikr678 »

AnarchismIsCool wrote: post #632
jbarham wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> will do nothing for emissions > How can that be? Because a reduction of domestic gas usage will just be diverted to less efficient LNG exports. Given that by far the largest source of Victoria's electricity generation capacity is from dirty brown coal [1] if anything banning domestic gas usage might even make emissions worse since it will force people to use only electricity for cooking and heating. > Direct consu…

It costs money to transport LNG abroad. Ships, terminal infrastructure maintenance, people, it's all overhead. Ultimately if people stop using natural gas domestically there will be a reduction in production because that overhead eats into the profits of the producers.

All that export infra is paid for/backed by long term shipping contracts.

Finance for domestic infra is harder to get because no one wants to be locked into 20 year supply arrangements.

The Japanese were, and that's what paid for Gladstone, and that's why for a period, Australian ng was cheaper in Japan than on-shore.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#735

Post by kccqzy »

bamboozled wrote: post #654
kccqzy wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20 years ago the best heat pumps still weren't good enough for cold days.

Do you really think it took twenty years to bring them up to speed ? Honestly ? I’m mean if the interest and investment were there innovation would’ve happened sooner ?

Oh yeah absolutely it didn't need to take 20 years.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#736

Post by paranoidrobot »

ffgjgf1 wrote: post #701
idiotsecant wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the correct strategy to wait to regulate gas usage until every country on earth does the same? That doesn't seem like a winning strategy. Someone always has to be last.

Banning domestic gas usage while a significant proportion of you electricity supply is produced by burning coal seems beyond absurd..

Except that it won't be that way forever. 30% of that generation goes away in 4 years. The rate of solar and wind generators coming onto the grid is massive, putting pressure on the brown coal generators.

We are also not talking about ripping out the existing install base of appliances.

It will take at least a decade or two for that switch to reach a critical mass. That's the point when it becomes uneconomic to continue operating the domestic piped LNG network in Victoria.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#737

Post by fransje26 »

smcleod wrote: post #384
bagels wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, the heat pump will reduce energy use to maybe 1/3 of a gas furnace, but natural gas is something like 6x cheaper for the same amount of energy, so it is an expensive folly. If California is serious about this, they need to reign in the utilities to reduce prices and or stop the attacks on solar installation.

Natural gas won’t stay cheap. It was cheap here in Australia 10 years ago and now it’s so expensive no one can afford to run gas heating and it’s only going up. Now (thankfully) the government has banned the installation of new gas heating and a lot of people are getting rid of gas cooking, hot water heating etc… it’s for the best.

> Now (thankfully) the government has banned the installation of new gas heating

I'm sorry, but how does that make any sense, when 47% of the electricity production in Australia comes from coal?? They are banning a system that is actually pretty efficient at making heat, to instead use a low efficiency coal power plant, to produce electricity, to then use in heat pumps to produce heat. Simply, wow.

https://www.energy.gov.au/energy-data/australian-energy-stat...

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#738

Post by notyourwork »

danans wrote: post #8

A big issue right now is the oversizing of heat pumps by HVAC contractors who are used to sizing gas furnaces using very simple btu/hr/sqft calculations. A contractor should do some kind of heating need analysis, at the least by studying old utility bills, and ideally by doing a Manual J heat loss calculation for the house. But almost none of them do that. There are some startups attempting to handle these design ste…

Why is oversizing a problem? Is it cost or something else?

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#739

Post by notyourwork »

supertrope wrote: post #66
jacobolus wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why this is a big issue?

Combustion furnaces deliver very hot air so they can cycle on once in a while and then turn off. Heat pumps deliver warm not hot air so they have to run longer cycles. The slower rise in room temperature can even mean that it makes more sense to set a constant temperature on your thermostat instead of letting the temperature fall when you're away during the day (the conventional logic to save energy).

Why is this an issue? We have a ducted/ductless system. Air handler for ducts on first floor and basement. Upstairs has a mini split in each room. Having air handler constantly push air at a reasonable temp makes for a very comfortable living condition. Compared to a furnace that’s on/off with wider temperature range and more divergent temperatures throughout the area.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#740

Post by notyourwork »

david422 wrote: post #60

I recently got heat pumps in the hopes that I could phase out my oil furnace. What I can say so far is: The temperature is wildly inconsistent. I don't know if this is a software issue, a hardware issue, or just the way heatpumps work. I've had the installer come back and look at it, I've had the heat pump rep come and look at it too. They basically checked everything and tried to convince me this is normal. With oil…

Do you have ducted or ductless system? They are different and can result in different experiences.
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