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FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

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Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#731

Post by ixs »

TylerE wrote: post #671
bmitc wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to consider what is safer when something goes wromg . Are there statistics that track this across different modes of travel?

Yes. Airplanes are literally hundreds of times less likely to kill you per mile than cars. There has not been a single US airline fatality since 2009.

Southwest 1380 would like a word with you.

Southwest Airlines Flight 1380 was a Boeing 737-700 that experienced an uncontained engine failure[a] in the left CFM56-7B engine after departing from New York–LaGuardia Airport en route to Dallas Love Field on April 17, 2018. […] One passenger was partially ejected from the aircraft and sustained fatal injuries[…]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines_Flight_13...

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#732

Post by xvector »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #618
feoren wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Whoa, way to twist the argument. No one is arguing for a lower salary and the death penalty. Exorbitant pay is fine if you're willing to put your life on the line for that kind of money. Plenty of people are.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#733

Post by tavavex »

askvictor wrote: post #726
tavavex wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plane faring better in the collision than expected and, allegedly, not burning through quickly and buying the passengers more time to evacuate.

My naive assuming would have been that carbon fibre would burn easier than aluminium

Well, yes, the plane did burn down almost completely. The quote I heard that complimented it wasn't that it wasn't flammable, but that it (again, allegedly - I'm not a material scientist) insulated the interior from the fire outside for long enough.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#734

Post by WalterBright »

vkou wrote: post #694
WalterBright wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airplanes are designed by people, and are enormously complex. No system involving humans will be free of mistakes.

I'm less concerned about mistakes as I am about systemic failures and bad incentives. Boeing seems to have created a political and regulatory environment for itself where its better for it to design and build planes poorly, than it is for it to design and build planes well.

Consider the incentives of the people at the FAA. Their incentive is to never approve a design, because if they approve a faulty design, they get the heat, too. It's much safer to just not approve anything, or at least delay demanding ever more documentation.

Hence there's always going to be a tug of war between the FAA and the industry. The FAA never wants to approve anything, and industry goes out of business if the FAA doesn't approve it.

You'll see the same forces in action with the FDA.

BTW, as is abundantly clear from history, a fatal design mistake can and has destroyed several airframe companies. Boeing's finances were punished severely after the MAX crashes. Boeing does not win by making an unsafe design. When I worked at Boeing, I didn't know any engineer who was willing to sign his name to a faulty design. Yes, the engineer responsible for a piece of work gets his name on the drawings. It's career suicide for him if he signed off on a bad design.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#735

Post by dcow »

diob wrote: post #660
ekianjo wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Capitalism just isnt set up to punish the Bourgeois. Its not a problem of capitalism its a problem of a judicial system having no balls to put execs in prison.

It's not Capitalism, it's just a result of the judicial system that results from Capitalism. Right?

America is not founded on capitalism and our judicial system is not innately born from it. Not saying capitalism via corporate lobbying and bribes hasn’t had an effect on the notion of justice, but our foundational legal principles exist outside of our nation’s choice of economic policy.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#736

Post by manp2 »

xfitm3 wrote: post #422
rootusrootus wrote: post #97

One troubling aspect of this is that it appears Alaska had reason to believe something was wrong with this plane but basically ignored it. They were getting pressurization warnings on prior flights, but the only action they took was restricting the plane from flying ETOPS routes. They're the dominant carrier in my area, so these sorts of screwups make me nervous. I can't easily avoid using them without a fair amount…

Alaskan Airlines is notorious for taking maintenance shortcuts, this is likely not an inherent problem with the airframe but rather this operators SOP. Alaskan Airline flight 261 is one example. > The subsequent investigation by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) determined that inadequate maintenance led to excessive wear and eventual failure of a critical flight control system during flight. Source: ht…

isn't alaska airlines rated one of the safest airline? What airline is safe these days?

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#737

Post by fuckyah »

roody15 wrote: post #419

Interesting timeline. Following the two fatal crashes involving the MCAS system and the 737 Max … The FAA gave Boeing until Dec of 2022 to implement a fix. The fix was to reconfigure the 737 Max with 2 sensors (instead of one) and include an manual shutoff Guess what happened? Boeing didn’t fix anything.. instead they cried to congress that the fix is too expensive and they cannot get it done. So what happens is cong…

[dead]

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#738

Post by breezeTrowel »

nimbius wrote: post #645
throwaway67743 wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Executives are personally liable for loss of life, regardless of the law it is morally contemptible to hide behind a corporation. Until people go to jail for manslaughter this will not change.

worth noting for no particular reason China had a baby formula scandal in 2008 that led to the death of four infants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal The Intermediate People's Court in Shijiazhuang sentenced a farmer, Zhang Yujun, and a senior manager, Geng Jinping, to death in 2009. five more people received life sentences and the main company behind it went bankrupt. this was for four infant…

> Capitalism just isnt set up to punish the Bourgeois.

Please read your own link. There were coverups and censorship galore. The problem was this story eventually got so big it could no longer be swept under the rug like so many things were and still are.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#739

Post by vladms »

talldatethrow wrote: post #730
roody15 wrote: post #419

Interesting timeline. Following the two fatal crashes involving the MCAS system and the 737 Max … The FAA gave Boeing until Dec of 2022 to implement a fix. The fix was to reconfigure the 737 Max with 2 sensors (instead of one) and include an manual shutoff Guess what happened? Boeing didn’t fix anything.. instead they cried to congress that the fix is too expensive and they cannot get it done. So what happens is cong…

I hate to turn this into a political comment, but your comment about it being depressing struck a nerve with me. Many conservatives and people worried about the border have been feeling this depression pretty hard the last few years, if not 20+ years. Add in the crime problem with no cash bail, and honestly a few friends and I have felt something is really wrong for several years on a pretty deep sad level. Interesti…

Feeling sad and depressed can be a medical condition rather than a reality issue. There are many numerically things (can't check everything) that are not much worse than 20 years ago (and some even better), but people seem more and more upset. It's like they just spend time online/on TV and WANT to find reasons to feel bad. Or that they expect that because things CAN be good they will be good tomorrow without any effort.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#740

Post by archon810 »

reciprocity wrote: post #687
ygvamjq2ol wrote: post #188

I flew a United MAX 9 last night, I was sitting in the window seat of a visible (Not plugged) emergency exit door. Landed a little while after this incident was reported. About an hour and a half before landing at SFO the pilot announced a hurried “Flight attendants check in” with no follow up announcement to the passengers. It was probably because of the turbulence we had been experiencing a few minutes before, but…

Intercom announcements like "flight attendants check-in" are a matter of routine.

Yeah, I imagine this could be a call to go to the bathroom or part of a security check-in.
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