731–740 of 1001 posts
I have no skin in this game. What I have seen is a confusion (perhaps intentional) between anti-semitism, and protesting Israel’s behavior since the Hamas attack in October. Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.
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Which other nation is allowed to literally colonize land than even itself doesn't consider to be part of their country? What other nation can get away with military enforcement of said colonies? If anything, Israel is given more slack in the west than any other nation. More civilians died in Gaza than in Ukraine yet clearly, only one nation has been condemned officially by western states and that's not Israel
I don't know a single country - including Israel's closest allies - that says that occupation of West Bank is acceptable.
Absolutely nothing, and if anything boycotting Israel is literally ground for getting fired in the USA.
Now that I think about it, no other country in the world has that privilege of being shielded from consequences like that either.
Again, Russia trying to annex Ukraine isn't just "not seen as acceptable". We saw very very clear and concrete actions from almost the entire west against that. What does Israel get when it colonizes its neighbors? Unwavering support that completely overlooks said colonies.
I've been watching Project Ask recently: https://www.youtube.com/@CoreyGilShusterAskProject/videos It's fascinating to hear opinions on the ground from both sides. Some things I've learned or concluded: Young Palestinians are much more radical than older ones, who seem more flexible. I personally think the two-state solution is a non-starter, and watched these videos to see if a one state solution is at all viable (m…
> Sadly, I think we are going to continue with the one state with Apartheid The situation is not like Apartheid in South Africa. In Apartheid, the white minority controlled South Africa, and did things like denying the black majority the vote. In contrast, Israel has a ~20% Arab minority (excluding Gaza and West Bank). The rights of that minority are respected. Arabs can vote in Israel, and in fact there is an Arab p…
Let's just say that on a scale of 1 to apartheid it's not a 1.
Coming from Europe and living in the US for the last couple of years, I'm shocked at how society here is clearly pro-israel. It is very clear that in the US the life of an israel citizen is valued way above the one of a palestinian. It is sad to lose that level of humanity. all of the discourse also conveniently ignores that Israel created a large-scale open-air prison in Gaza and removed any hope left for people liv…
I think a lot of Americans either consciously or subconciosuly see the similarity between Israel's situation and the US's with regards to the natives. If there was a native independence movement that resorted to terrorism the us would flatten every reservation in the country.
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> So you are suggesting an eye for an eye, we should kill a Palestinian for every one of our dead? Honestly, I find that thought disgusting. Just to be clear: you find that more disgusting than killing over ten Palestinians for every dead Israeli?
As a pragmatist, I see Israel as a relatively liberal democracy with Arab Muslims in their parliament, women and gays have civil rights, the society is open and innovative. Many Arab nations do not have these properties, and their ideologies often oppose them in principle.
That said, I do not think Israel should be defended to the inordinate degree it has, which is due to American imperial interests, the military industrial complex, and many elite Jews which have disproportionate influence in American society. Look at the major CEOs of corporations in tech, finance, media, etc.
It's also harsh and dark to imagine, but sometimes we benefit from being the inheritors of evil actions that finalized a blood feud or enforced homogeneity. China is unified in large part because of the repression of their totalitarian state. Roughly 92% of China is ethnically Han, which is mostly just a bunch of Chinese ethnicities that were culturally assimilated into being called Han after the Han dynasty. America doesn't have to deal with an insurgency of Comanches because they're utterly out numbered by American citizens and weaponry. Israelis do not have these advantages, and would be at major risk of being conquered by the many more numerous Arab Muslims, who too were the result of oppressive and evil military campaigns of Mohammad and subsequent Muslim warriors.
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I think the fundamental assumption of the analysis that there are two mutually exclusive groups, 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Palestine' is flawed. It is possible to simultaneously support the interests of Palestinian and Israeli civilians (and support a peaceful Israel within the 1967 boundaries), while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) and Hamas. I think it is cur…
I have nothing to add here, other than to thank you for expressing this so cogently. It’s not always “right” to measure just action in terms of lives saved or lost, but it’s hard for me (and so many other American Jews) to see anything right or just about 10 dead Palestinians for every dead Israeli.
If your suggested law of war isn't 'majority or ruthless minority, get to do everything they want because they have more causalties', than you need an alternative. The alternative is the current laws of war, which allow for strikes with collateral damage (what Israel says it's doing), but not for terrorist attacks aimed at civilians.
* Suicide bombers, Iranian mullahs sending kids with 'plastic keys to heaven' to dismantle minefields, or current refusal of Hamas to allow civilians to use its tunnels as shelters. We could fill the page with examples really.
** Funny, I don't recall opposition to America's post 9/11 response based on counts. Almost as if the same rules don't apply.
This article made it to front with 297 pts and generally it negative towards Israel. I don't think any of the articles about Hamas atrocities and their use of social media made to cause panic and fear made it that far on HN. Back in Oct about a week after the attack Bloomberg 's reporting on the attack and the beginning of the ended up being flagged on NH and only has 23pts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37910…
On the contrary the IDF is pretty open about its online media budget, spend, and goals. So isn't it natural that people would study it more?
https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/news/social-media-is-a-warz...
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I've noticed quite a bit of propaganda which is intentionally conflating these two pairs. That is, those who are advocating for Gazans are referred to as Hamas supporters and those advocating on behalf of Israeli citizens are accused of supporting genocide, etc. This is done to polarize both groups, encourage strongly negative emotional reactions, and prevent anyone from taking a more reasonable perspective to addres…
Try to argue and "make a peaceful treaty" with a ruling party of terrorists (greatly supported by the population btw), who want to completely obliterate Israel, launch rockets from their own houses near their own children, which has been factually proven countless amount of times. Same goes to Russia, DPRK, Iran, these are narrow minded non-negotiable despotic countries, they want only their way, regardless of casual…
The 1% most extreme on both sides want to drag you down to their level, don't let them.