The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression • Hacker News Board

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#731

Post by kjkjadksj » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:22 PM UTC

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #624

toomuchtodo wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So perhaps the solution is more affordable senior housing built in lower cost of living areas? If we’re subsidizing the housing, medical care (Medicare), income (Social Security or a bridge to it), you don’t need to build in expensive urban cores; location is not as important. Suburban cores are probably fine if the land cost is reasonable and close enough to public transit.

> So perhaps the solution is more affordable senior housing built in lower cost of living areas? That's still necessary but we're past the optimum point where that is helpful. Once folks transition into homelessness, they've lost their income earning ability. Reacquiring employment is much harder after homelessness and much worse for older people. For them, the pool of who will hire them sharply decreases year by yea…

We need a modern sort of WPA. Even for some of the mentally ill homeless people there is plenty of work in the city for them to do if we bothered designing a jobs program.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#732

Post by wuliwong » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:22 PM UTC

denimnerd42 wrote: post #618

cornercasechase wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public transit is much safer than driving in your car. Someone skipping fare does not compare to even a light fender bender.

I think people mean a more irrational feeling of safety, rather than hard statistics. They don't want to see or be near those antisocial behaviors when they're taking transportation. Old people seem to suffer from this irrational feeling more than younger.

>I think people mean a more irrational feeling of safety, rather than hard statistics

Also, the generic statistics of the probability of getting in an accident might not accurately apply to me. I might be a particularly good or bad driver. Totally anecdotal, but of my 28 years of driving, both of my small accidents occurred in the first two years.

>They don't want to see or be near those antisocial behaviors when they're taking transportation

I guess I think wanting to avoid seeing antisocial behavior is rational. It almost seems like that is the exact response expected in order to define the behavior as antisocial in the first place. :')

>Old people seem to suffer from this irrational feeling more than younger.

Older people are also more vulnerable. What might come across to me as just annoying or gross could be cause for more legitimate caution to a more vulnerable person. In my mind, when someone is acting particularly antisocially in public, there does seem to be a rise in my expectation (although slightly) that this person could do something violent.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#733

Post by rubymancer » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:23 PM UTC

th3byrdm4n wrote: post #677

Create a progressive tax on multiple homes. Increase tax on corporate owners. There

I had to read this several times and... this is a great solution.

As taxes, these are a negative incentive for hoarding housing stock and increase gov't revenues to (potentially at least) help to house seniors.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#734

Post by BirAdam » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:24 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #145

BirAdam wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the absence of government intervention, wealth is more likely to tend toward the center. The issue is that any democratic form of government featuring any kind of legislature reliant on voting will be bought. First, large companies will want small little advantages like a new road to their factory. Overtime, it becomes massive like immunity from prosecution from drugs that kill people like opioids. Over time, thes…

> In the absence of government intervention, wealth is more likely to tend toward the center. The issue is that any democratic form of government featuring any kind of legislature reliant on voting will be bought. Every non-democratic form will be bought even faster, if it's not operated directly by the "buyers" in the first place. Though I doubt that "in the absence of government intervention, wealth is more likely…

My argument is not that any government or no government is better than another, but rather that this form of corruption is unavoidable in democracies.

As for anarchy, yes, you could have more or worse violent action, but the type you cite is directly how the current system works. In the USA, the US and its states have the greatest military strength and therefore set the terms. They also engage in military action on behalf of corporations like United Fruit, Coca-Cola, Exon, etc. The argument that "in the absence of a government the warlords would take over" ignores that the warlords are already in power. Further, I at no point advocated for anarchy. I merely stated that in the absence of government intervention, wealthy is more likely to tend toward the center. In the USA, the wealth gap has widened as government intervention in the market has increased and that is the basis of evidence for my argument. Today, the richest and poorest are further apart that any prior time in US history, and law/regulation is and has been in continuous expansion not retraction.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#735

Post by nitwit005 » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:26 PM UTC

mywittyname wrote: post #674

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know it’s from zoning laws because a few places don’t have this problem > “We have kept our rent increases to about 1% whereas the rest of the country was looking at 31%,” Mayor Jacob Frey said on Monday, citing data from The Pew Charitable Trusts. > “That’s a drastic difference. And in part, it’s due to the policies that we’ve passed.” > It’s mostly simple supply and demand, according to Mayor Frey. An explosion…

This kind of zoning also builds desireable neighborhoods. The neighborhood I live in has six-ten unit apartments on the same streets as six-to-ten bedroom mansions. In some places, you can see where the owner of the mansion had an apartment building constructed in their front yard. I could never imagine this happening today. Yet everyone in the region knows of this neighborhood as being prestigious, with the best sch…

> But for some reason, local politicians can't seem to enact zoning laws that allow them to be built in modern times.

People show up at the city council meeting and scream at them that the construction will destroy the neighborhood.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#736

Post by RationPhantoms » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:26 PM UTC

mym1990 wrote: post #633

jeffbee wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I feel like it should just be "Humans are and have always been characterized by their failure to plan for the future". All of history is just a rise and fall of empires due to unforeseen or unexpected consequences, followed by an advance in technology. Who are you to say that gen X or any other generation will correctly plan for the future(as we currently navigate some of the biggest hurdles to humanity and the Earth…

Thank you for adding rationality to this argument.

The whole notion that "boomers" are some unnatural microcosm of what humans have been doing for thousands of years is laughable. I always ask my fellow millennials, what are you doing to avoid having our grandchildren call us a selective cohort of do-nothings & non-tree/shade planters?

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#737

Post by BirAdam » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:28 PM UTC

flagrant_taco wrote: post #148

BirAdam wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the absence of government intervention, wealth is more likely to tend toward the center. The issue is that any democratic form of government featuring any kind of legislature reliant on voting will be bought. First, large companies will want small little advantages like a new road to their factory. Overtime, it becomes massive like immunity from prosecution from drugs that kill people like opioids. Over time, thes…

Corruption happens under any form of government, it doesn't require democracy. The risk for corruption is always there when power is centralized, the more you centralize the more incentive there is. If anything democracy has only shown that it isn't a magic bullet for corruption. Part of the goal is that oversight by the voting public will eventually weed out the corrupt, that works somewhat and should certainly be b…

I do not disagree with your first part. The second part, I would argue has been proven false. Voting changes nothing, and I dare say that were voting capable of changing anything, it'd be illegal. Obama and Trump both said they were antiwar and would end war, neither did. All of the Presidents of my life time have spoken against large deficit spending except for Clinton and Biden, and hilariously, only Clinton ever made any real progress on that front. The people are generally against the drug war, no change. The people are generally against mass incarceration, no change. The people are generally against corporate/government collusion, no change. The people have generally been against bailouts, no change.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#738

Post by gottorf » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:29 PM UTC

fnimick wrote: post #640

jimt1234 wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been told since childhood that the main obstacle to inexpensive public transit in the the majority of US is racism - keep those people in their neighborhood . I've never done any sort of research or anything, and even though it's depressing, it sounds plausible.

It's very true. Look at the way "urban" is used as a dog whistle for certain groups of people. A bit of local history from where I live: Boston rapid transit was intended to extend to the northwest a considerable distance, putting more communities on the system and allowing easy, car-free commutes. It saw vociferous neighborhood opposition from groups who "didn't like the idea of increased traffic and certain urban e…

> vociferous neighborhood opposition from groups who "didn't like the idea of increased traffic and certain urban elements entering their quiet suburban town."

Urban areas generally do have higher rates of crime than suburban or rural areas (and this is certainly true of the Boston area[0]), and prima facie I don't see anything wrong with letting the residents of Arlington determine for themselves the benefits and disadvantages of having the Red Line extend into their town. Not everything has to be a dog-whistle; unless you're suggesting that the residents of suburban Boston are less virtuous than the number of "In this house we believe..." lawn signs might suggest?

[0]: https://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Boston-Massachusetts.h...

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#739

Post by wuliwong » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:30 PM UTC

escapedmoose wrote: post #192

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

Among my friends seeking to buy houses, the greater problem is the ability of large companies to buy up whatever is on the market, which they then immediately turn into a rental. It’s nearly impossible to compete with a company who will pay $50k over asking price, in cash, for the house you’re trying to get. Comparatively, immigrants don’t have the purchasing power to compete, so saying they’re the problem is a weird…

I don't understand the math of this? If the company is paying way over asking price, they will be losing money for some number of years while renting the property. I guess the idea is that eventually they will turn cash flow positive? So these companies have a bunch of cash in reserve?

My personal experience in recent years, in the city of Atlanta, Atlanta suburbs, and Philadelphia suburbs, is that I do not see companies buying up all the houses to rent. In the Philly burbs in particular, I see traditional home buyers bidding up the prices. Even with the high interest rates, the low supply is still causing a good bit of competition for each new listing that is in good shape. The supply of rentals in this area is pretty low as well. So if there were these large swathes of homes going from family owned to rentals, I would think it would be pretty obvious when I'm looking for a rental.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#740

Post by seanmcdirmid » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:30 PM UTC

helen___keller wrote: post #604

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shenzhen and Guangzhou are some of the least affordable cities in the world when it comes to housing prices. Yes, rents are actually not that bad and many units are vacant being just used as investments, but the cost to buy is astronomical given the Chinese housing bubble. Tokyo is an example where houses are torn down every 39 years so a new one can be built. Also, given the lack of population growth in Japan as a w…

Tokyo capped out and is now declining in population because there isn’t a backlog of millions of people who wanted to live there but couldn’t or had to move out because rent is 3x in Tokyo compared to Osaka. Rent is maybe 30% higher in Tokyo, even less if you live on the end of a train line. Can you imagine how many people would move to Bay Area CA or New York City or Boston or Seattle if their rent was only 30% high…

> but couldn’t or had to move out because rent is 3x in Tokyo compared to Osaka.

Osaka and Nagoya are losing people also. The changes are for metro areas, not city cores.

> If anything that should make it more expensive (since buying used and not rebuilding is cheaper).

It simply means that you can't compute new housing very easily by new housing construction rates (you have to subtract old housing demolitions).

Density currently isn't increasing (you tear down one three story narrow house and replace it with another three story narrow house, you need to buy a bunch of SFHs to make a new apartment building).