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Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

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Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#731

Post by afandian »

idlewords wrote: post #206
encody wrote: post #186

It's small, but here's a real actionable item that you can do to help: Put a gentle "Use Firefox" (or any other non-Chromium-based browser) message on your website. It doesn't have to be in-your-face, just something small. I've taken my own advice and added it to my own website: https://geeklaunch.io/ (It only appears on Chromium-based browsers.) We can slowly turn the tide, little by little.

This advice has strong 1998 vibes.

It makes up for all of the "your browser is outdated" banners I see when using Firefox.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#732

Post by MSFT_Edging »

bee_rider wrote: post #690
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe google has intentionally made google maps near unusable in firefox. It's been consistently working worse and worse every year. I feel like about 8 years ago there used to be parity between them.

I think this example is weirdly informative to me. I mostly use maps via an app (Apple or Google, they seem to be the same for basic use). Usually if I’m using a map, I’ll be using it in my car for navigation, so Firefox doesn’t even come to mind. I suspect, on top of the “maybe it is internal apps” thing I mentioned at first, some of the really bad sites are the really interactive ones, I probably just use the app w…

I like to explore maps a lot, and its simply better on a full desktop screen compared to a phone.

So its a regular drag for me. If I really need to move quick to find something, I'll begrudgingly open chrome.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#734

Post by awesomeMilou »

dvngnt_ wrote: post #584
sir_brickalot wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this already the reality in the mobile space? I own a rooted Samsung device and have to jump through 100 hoops to be able to use my banking app or Netflix or some rando game (which I don't actually play). SafetyNet broken, hardware fuse blown, Magisk Hide + some other havks just to still be able to do online banking. I just want to be able to ssh into my own device or install a real ad blocker, like Adaway with…

it is the reality for mobile. on iphone you can't even install software that apple doesn't explicitly allow. they would love to extend this to all computing devices to remove control

> they would love to extend this to all computing devices to remove control

That's not really true. Apple is encroaching freedom of software choice on their devices, but they know that they can't extend the same kind of security policies to the desktop. You can disable secure boot on Macs and even run Linux if you like. Additionally, it's a bit difficult but if you disable SIP you do get access to the entire systems file system. They're a shitty company when it comes to repair-ability and their walled garden, but they know they can't extend this to the desktop, or else they would disqualify themselves from the developer market (where they are quite popular).

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#735

Post by asadotzler »

arp242 wrote: post #383
Dalewyn wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox was better than IE6, but it was the sheer force of nerds that dragged it across the finish line because neither the enterprise nor the general population otherwise cared.

What does that even mean? People used Firefox because it was better. It's that simple. No one forced anyone to use anything.

People used Firefox because their nerd friend or family member helped them download and install it. We got to 100 million downloads almost exclusively on word of mouth. It's not enough to have a better product, people have to learn about it and we did that with SpreadFirefox and other efforts I helped initiate so I'm very familiar with this. You don't have to trust my appeal to my own authority here, but I doubt you've got anyone closer to Firefox's early growth than me so maybe worth listening.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#736

Post by throw_m239339 »

tzs wrote: post #523
throw_m239339 wrote: post #101

The web stopped being open when W3C accepted EME. Now that effectively Google IS the web, they don't even have fake attempting to convince anybody and will just turn the web into another proprietary technology.

> The web stopped being open when W3C accepted EME The web was more open when to play those videos you had to use a proprietary Flash or Silverlight plugin?

> The web was more open when to play those videos you had to use a proprietary Flash or Silverlight plugin?

That's what you are claiming with your sarcasm hidden behind a rhetorical question, I've never said anything about Flash or Silverlight in the comment you've answered to.

There is absolutely no difference from a conceptual perspective between EME implementation and proprietary plugins, EME is necessarily based on a proprietary spyware, but you can't fathom that fact apparently.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#737

Post by joshuamorton »

troupo wrote: post #674
tzs wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Google can take unilateral action to fundamentally change the basic principles of the web, then the W3C is already useless. This will give Google a clear choice: if they want to maintain the idea that the W3C matters, they should withdraw this implementation. It's pretty generally accepted that the correct way to do web standardization is for proponents of some new thing to implement that thing and deploy it and…

> It's pretty generally accepted that the correct way to do web standardization is for proponents of some new thing to implement that thing and deploy it and then once it has been shown to actually work bring a spec to the the standards folks for standardization. - Behind dev flags - And then wait for consensus - And then there have to be at least two independent implementations And only then does this become a stand…

This links to the chromium repo where it is behind a dev flag.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#738

Post by awesomeMilou »

thurn wrote: post #335
anshumankmr wrote: post #160

As someone who is a somewhat new to web technologies, can someone really explain why this is bad? I saw the techical discussions in the PRs made to the WEI repo but it was all super technical that I was not able to understand the arguments made for and against it.

Like any technology, there are both positive and negative aspects of it. The positive take would probably be that this technology is already widely used by iOS and Android apps. People use Apple's AppAttest to e.g. ensure that high scores submitted for a game are from a legitimate copy of the game and not just someone calling the SubmitHighScore API. But it's absolutely fair to argue that the web operates on a differ…

> People use Apple's AppAttest to e.g. ensure that high scores submitted for a game are from a legitimate copy of the game and not just someone calling the SubmitHighScore API.

But that's for Apps. Native Apps, not websites. If we argue this way, then this becomes a solution seeking an issue, since the first thing you learn in web programming is to never trust the client. I don't even see how this changes here, given that it won't mitigate any bugs, except giving me proof that the only bugs present on the client side system are the ones written by me.

The reason Google actually want's to implement this, is because they risk loosing huge amounts of revenue due to adblocking, something they can control on mobile (since they control the software supply chain there) but cannot do in the browser (since I have access to the DOM).

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#740

Post by blitz_skull »

ConorSheehan1 wrote: post #689
slig wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less than 5% of global usage [1], and no presence whatsoever on mobile. Pretty much dead. [1]: https://radar.cloudflare.com/adoption-and-usage And CF stats doesn't depend on JavaScript.

I'm writing this on firefox for android. It has 100M+ downloads on the play store.

Pretty sure download statistics don’t reflect usage. And are we even sure those are unique downloads?

At any rate, 100M downloads across the lifetime of the app isn’t much to write home about when considering the billions (plural) that use Google products. Furthermore, there’s an entire class of people that think Chrome IS the internet. It’s wildly more common than the average HN would think.

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