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Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

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Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Main thing I notice is the fear I sense in people whenever cops are nearby, and definitely the sense of this security state hovering over everyone. As someone that has lived in a police state before, I can't tell you that your feelings in the US aren't valid. They are yours alone. But perhaps travel somewhere were actual security forces search you randomly, harass you for no reason, etc. Experiences I have never ha…

You lived in a shithole, so what? 80% of a shithole is still a shithole.

If you are going to shorthand entire countries as "shitholes" you should do so up front, so I don't waste my time responding to you.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does your anecdote include the immigrant experience? You are perhaps describing the experience of a Lebanese in Lebanon, or a German in Germany. What about everyone else? > A big part of American fear is knowing that nearly every single person you interact with that isn't a friend of yours doesn't really consider you their "people". The other side of this coin: America actually accepts people from other places. Most…

I don't think America accepts immigrants; in most places there's a pleasant apathy toward them. You're not really considered "American" by most born here unless you're born here and have the accent, and even then people are understood to belong primarily to their own ethnic group. The American ideal is now a civic society that's not predicated on the idea of having a "people" who the nation-state is created for. Citi…

> I don't think America accepts immigrants; in most places there's a pleasant apathy toward them. You're not really considered "American" by most born here

Not been my experience in NYC and other places. Quite the opposite. Also have you seen European integration of foreigners up close? Middle East? Asia?

My guess is no, because these places make it far more difficult to assimilate (if not impossible)

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You lived in a shithole, so what? 80% of a shithole is still a shithole.

If you are going to shorthand entire countries as "shitholes" you should do so up front, so I don't waste my time responding to you.

I don't need to hear some bullshit about how hard you've had it in some random country, could not give a shit. At least we are not in Nazi Germany lol is not something I'll care about.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think America accepts immigrants; in most places there's a pleasant apathy toward them. You're not really considered "American" by most born here unless you're born here and have the accent, and even then people are understood to belong primarily to their own ethnic group. The American ideal is now a civic society that's not predicated on the idea of having a "people" who the nation-state is created for. Citi…

> I don't think America accepts immigrants; in most places there's a pleasant apathy toward them. You're not really considered "American" by most born here Not been my experience in NYC and other places. Quite the opposite. Also have you seen European integration of foreigners up close? Middle East? Asia? My guess is no, because these places make it far more difficult to assimilate (if not impossible)

I have seen non-American "integration" of foreigners, in Europe, Middle East, Asia, etc. In these places there are much more distinct mono-cultures relating to race than there are in the US. What is the dominant culture in NYC? Yuppie white Midwestern transplants? Orthodox Jews? Blue collar Italian and Irish descendents? American blacks? Mexican immigrants? All of these groups have very different standards for demeanor and behavior. In this way, these groups of "New Yorkers" collectively permit "assimilation" because there isn't really anything in particular to assimilate into. As long as you follow the law and spend a lot of money, people typically won't be that unkind to you or treat you in a way you'd recognize as a "foreigner", because they already treat everyone as a bit of a "foreigner".

I suspect we're disagreeing over what it means to "assimilate" or "be accepted as" one of an ethnic group. Imagine a stirring speech where a speaker says "I have dreamed of a respite from the trials our people have undergone". When the audience hears "our people", they are going to think of a certain group that they imagine themselves belonging to. In America, a miniscule fraction of the population thinks of "everyone who is legally an American" when they hear the phrase "our people".

However, some other place like Paris, the massive city-state of the white Franks, has a carefully guarded culture that they gatekeep as a majority ethnic group. You can live in France, and you can speak French, but you can't "become French" because many of the people who call themselves "French" think specifically of white Frankish/Gaulish/Roman descendents. That's just not happening in major American cities.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are going to shorthand entire countries as "shitholes" you should do so up front, so I don't waste my time responding to you.

I don't need to hear some bullshit about how hard you've had it in some random country, could not give a shit. At least we are not in Nazi Germany lol is not something I'll care about.

It's called perspective. If you don't have it, fine. But I wouldn't loudly brag about how small your world is.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think America accepts immigrants; in most places there's a pleasant apathy toward them. You're not really considered "American" by most born here Not been my experience in NYC and other places. Quite the opposite. Also have you seen European integration of foreigners up close? Middle East? Asia? My guess is no, because these places make it far more difficult to assimilate (if not impossible)

I have seen non-American "integration" of foreigners, in Europe, Middle East, Asia, etc. In these places there are much more distinct mono-cultures relating to race than there are in the US. What is the dominant culture in NYC? Yuppie white Midwestern transplants? Orthodox Jews? Blue collar Italian and Irish descendents? American blacks? Mexican immigrants? All of these groups have very different standards for demean…

> In these places there are much more distinct mono-cultures relating to race than there are in the US.

So, ghettos. I'm not saying there's not a "little Italy" in most American cities, but a Turkish person living in Germany their whole life is still Turkish. American in Japan, same. These places don't even allow the possibility of assimilation.

Or as my English friend put it, "there's a difference between tolerance and acceptance."

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't need to hear some bullshit about how hard you've had it in some random country, could not give a shit. At least we are not in Nazi Germany lol is not something I'll care about.

It's called perspective. If you don't have it, fine. But I wouldn't loudly brag about how small your world is.

I don't care about the "perspective" of some shithole country, just like I don't care about the perspective of some caveman complaining about how Ugg was mean to him or whatever.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#738
post #129
post #9

1) I understand that the CCP bans sites and apps. Let's not sink to their level. (Instead, let's build more and more technologies to enable their people to get around said bans). 2) This is embarrassing. You don't like TikTok? Man up and compete. Don't ban it. 3) The complexity in this bills makes it reak of corruption. There will be winners and losers in this bill. The losers we can bet are 99% of the population.

Could you highlight any particular complexity you're referring to? I read this bill and, independent of my thoughts and feelings about it, I do not find it overly complex.

I believe law is like code: the number of bugs goes up with line count. Bugs are exploited by black hat lawyers.

This bill is twice as long as the entire U.S. Constitution.

A real principled stand against these adversaries would not be resorting to their levels with this "RESTRICT ACT" and giving more power and money to negative value add lawyes, but instead would be something like "FREEDOM ACT", where we invest in technologies and tactics that go against the Great Firewall and other methods used by these countries to keep American apps out.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain what you mean? The USA never had “lockdowns” at all – to some degree because of public pressure though also because for the first year or so of the crisis the federal government flailed around passively/counterproductively due to abject incompetence (plus some grifting) at the top. Meanwhile China’s Covid policy had nothing whatsoever to do with the American electorate or stakeholders, but was instead…

I think fooster's point is that Xi had to eventually give in to pressure from "the electorate and [China]-based stakeholders" as evidenced by the CCP having to eventually abandon its zero covid policy, so there are some constraints from the people on his power. Though I think it's less that Xi responded to pressure from the people and more that his personal power was starting to become at risk due to the policy from…

In that case they are entirely missing my point. Obviously Chinese politics responds (to one extent or another) to internal pressure. My point is that as an American citizen/resident I don’t have any influence on Chinese politics, so if a Chinese company under influence from the Chinese government infringes on my rights I have no real recourse. Whereas if something goes wrong here in my own country based on action of local citizens or locally based companies/politicians, the residents here can put direct pressure on the domestic political system, bring civil/criminal legal action against wrongdoing, etc.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called perspective. If you don't have it, fine. But I wouldn't loudly brag about how small your world is.

I don't care about the "perspective" of some shithole country, just like I don't care about the perspective of some caveman complaining about how Ugg was mean to him or whatever.

If you are going to say something like this:

> Main thing I notice is the fear I sense in people whenever cops are nearby, and definitely the sense of this security state hovering over everyone

You should know what that feels like, when it actually occurs. Similarly when someone rushes to declare their country has become "Nazi Germany", they ought to read a history book or two.

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