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EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#731

Post by lultimouomo »

yrgulation wrote: post #374
lultimouomo wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not seen a SEPA wire transfer cost more than 1€ since SEPA wire transfers have existed. Which would make the fee at most 0.01% for >10k€ payments.

Regardless of how small the fee, there is a fee that you are being forced to pay.

The most that I have ever payed is 1€. I have been paying 0€ for the last 5 years or so. Is that still a fee?

"Oh lultimouomo", you say, "the were transfer might be nominally free but sure having a bank has other costs involved". No fixed cost, yrgulation, so by the very fact of having a bank account, depositing money in it and taking it back by wire transfer or ATM you are never paying a fee. Also, cash has a cost. You risk being mugged, you risk getting a wrong change by the cashier, the store risks a robbery / break in (and most often pays expensive insurance to protect itself against this)

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#732

Post by nottorp »

lilsoso wrote: post #660
chupasaurus wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> our own separate payment networks called Maestro You mean Mastercard's brand?

Yes, technically. But you won't be able to use an American Mastercard. Maestro is a debit card, generally it will look like this: https://www.abnamro.com/en/news/pin-needed-less-often-when-m... . I've never seen it in the US.

Any Mastercard/Visa, no matter where it's issued :)

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#733

Post by mdp2021 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #404
mdp2021 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Good old "look where the trend is going, foresee the risks". Ah, remembering the surprise of upset people when they did not raise a suspect in front of bank clerks telling you "It's contactless, limited risk, 25u per transaction" (and already then the child-basic retort is "Times by how many transactions?"), and then were reached by the bank information that "owing to progress the limit is now raised to 50u / 10…

Are you complaining that the amount you could do in a single contactless transaction went up ? I can't tell what you're arguing. If you're talking about fees I thought those were capped a while ago and haven't increased.

> the amount you could do in a single contactless transaction

(Certainly not me: I will not accept embedded fixed NFC - not in documents, not in bank cards, not in general.)

Yes. I will rephrase: people were told, "Here are the details of the system: if anything goes wrong, it can only be for 25u". Some people trusted that as a fixed contract. Then, some received the (expectable) communications that the formerly established limit will change. Depending on the country and system, some doubled, some were raised to 150u (if I remember well), with promises to arrive soon at 500u (if I remember well).

Other details are not different in nature: if the PSD2 imposed that the via-PIN "signature" has to be provided every 5 transactions, that does not mean that at a later stage this will not be modified to 500.

The point is: if it is intrinsic to the system that the configuration can be globally changed, expect it.

About the logic: you have to foresee them "slopes", when you see they /are/ "slippery". The fallacy is in assuming the future. It is on the opposite _duly_ to consider the chances.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#734

Post by namaria »

olivermarks wrote: post #253

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

"Government officials claim more power, point to sinister danger to justify. More at 11"

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#735

Post by thiht »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #558
1337biz wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hn responses are stunning. It is insane that a pro privacy crowd supports the removal of freedoms, such as cash payments. It is amazing how many hn users appreciate their bank and government to keep track of their purchases and hope more people will become like them - just because they can't imagine buying anything worth 10k. When even HN is in full swing anti cash - and with current inflation rates 10k probably…

The European crowd on HN in general is very much in favor of big government. I assume GDPR is very popular here despite making software development a huge pain, for example. Americans on HN (and ironically a lot of Germans on here) seem to be much more libertarian in their sensibility.

You guys are unbelievable. Of course GDPR makes some things harder. It’s the whole point. GDPR is probably one of the biggest pro-freedom laws of the last years. Not big corp freedom for sure, but people freedom, and that’s GOOD. But Americans with their skewed vision of freedom just can’t see it I guess.

Honestly if GDPR pisses off Americans, it probably means it hit on the nail.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#736

Post by amaccuish »

SergeAx wrote: post #648
yrgulation wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of eu countries have a threshold of how much you can pay in cash, and it works just fine. No one is missing hospital treatment because of it and even illiterate folks can use banks and open accounts.

Well, tell that to Russian war emigrants. Opening bank account in EU for non-residents is a hard endeavor right now. Those who did it before the hot part of war started in February often finding their accounts frozen and literally were unable to receive their paychecks.

But if they have emigrated, they are by definition resident?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#737

Post by chmod775 »

epolanski wrote: post #639
rahen wrote: post #69

This new EU regulation has nothing to do with preventing terrorism or money laundering, but rather paving the way for its CBDC. This is about power and surveillance.

This is nonsense, most money in the world is already digital only, Euro too, only a small % is paper/coins. I'm surprised by the amount of negativity around this news really.

So because people don't routinely make use of their freedom to pay in cash, it's okay to take it away?

I now understand why some people in the states walk around openly carrying firearms, exercising their rights.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#738

Post by rahen »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #558
1337biz wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hn responses are stunning. It is insane that a pro privacy crowd supports the removal of freedoms, such as cash payments. It is amazing how many hn users appreciate their bank and government to keep track of their purchases and hope more people will become like them - just because they can't imagine buying anything worth 10k. When even HN is in full swing anti cash - and with current inflation rates 10k probably…

The European crowd on HN in general is very much in favor of big government. I assume GDPR is very popular here despite making software development a huge pain, for example. Americans on HN (and ironically a lot of Germans on here) seem to be much more libertarian in their sensibility.

Not all Europeans thank goodness. Switzerland and Germany are usually careful with big government. Even France was the birthplace of libertarianism and has a healthy ancap scene. I only wish they weren't so quiet, because so many people give up their power to the state here.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#739

Post by mdp2021 »

lultimouomo wrote: post #332
mdp2021 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to decrease tax evasion Through a very obscure logic, since payment cap cannot exclude unregistered payments.

They point is making it hard for the tax evaders to spend their cash (which they cannot deposit in the bank since it's way more than they officially earn) in law abiding shops.

Thank you for the clarification, Ultimo (so there is at least two of us), but the rationality of the measure is still doubtful.

This starts making half-sense - it is not to curb the possibility that the merchant evades, but to hinder spending earning coming from evasion. Unfortunately, that money that may come from evasion is the same money that comes from normal earnings: so the damage is spread, not surgical. For example, now Men (is it just the two of us?) in Spain cannot purchase, say, a Macbook (the threshold there is reportedly at 999€).

It seems like one of those generalizing measures like "Populations labelled as irresponsible socially extroverts as an aggregate will have individuals bound to confinement in case of epidemic", which even when they work as an effect involve massive lateral damages.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#740

Post by [deleted] »

SergeAx wrote: post #648
yrgulation wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of eu countries have a threshold of how much you can pay in cash, and it works just fine. No one is missing hospital treatment because of it and even illiterate folks can use banks and open accounts.

Well, tell that to Russian war emigrants. Opening bank account in EU for non-residents is a hard endeavor right now. Those who did it before the hot part of war started in February often finding their accounts frozen and literally were unable to receive their paychecks.

[deleted]
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