Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo • Hacker News Board

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#731

Post by sylens » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 2:28 PM UTC

bayindirh wrote: post #427

donmcronald wrote: post #5

I want the option to control my devices. I don’t understand the arguments that claim Apple needs to rule the device with an iron fist. What problems does it cause to make the locked down experience the default with the option for me to disable that and take control of the device after I buy it? I want to own my stuff. I want to repair it and I want complete control over it. I think that in 10 years we’ll all have car…

I understand where you are coming from, and support you on that. On the other hand, I'm pretty happy with the default state of an iPhone. It just manages itself, and all that hard problems (backups, updates, ease of use, experience homogenity, etc.) are solved. I manage more than enough servers at work, and I don't want to manage another server in my pocket, do nitty-gritty settings, allow selected apps background ac…

I don't want to manage my iPhone like I do a Linux server. But I would like the ability to sign up for Netflix or other streaming services when I first launch the app. Or, failing that, I'd like a message on that app telling me where I have to go to sign-up. I'd like to be able to buy Kindle books directly on my phone and start reading them. I'd like to use a different web browser engine at times.

All of those things have been taken out of my hands, the first two because those of ludicrous App Store rules and policies.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#732

Post by coldpie » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 2:30 PM UTC

ArnoVW wrote: post #655

cmdli wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly true. Right now, app megacorporations are only using Apple's App Store (with the protections like Ask Not To Track) because they are forced to. The moment those corporations aren't forced to, they will turn around and force whatever consumers to use the app store that the corporations prefer. The choice of app store isn't ever in the consumer's hands, its in the corporations hands (Apple or otherwise).

If that were the true reason that Apple is forcing Appstore, and that's a big if, then Apple could still offer this "amazing service to customers", by contractually forcing companies to always also offer payments via Apple if payments are accepted elsewhere. If I can think of that in 30 seconds, then so can Apple. I'll let you draw your own conclusion.

If the app is distributed via a non-Apple app store, then there is no contract between the app developer and Apple. What mechanism would Apple have to enforce that policy?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#733

Post by smachiz » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 2:33 PM UTC

sylens wrote: post #731

bayindirh wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand where you are coming from, and support you on that. On the other hand, I'm pretty happy with the default state of an iPhone. It just manages itself, and all that hard problems (backups, updates, ease of use, experience homogenity, etc.) are solved. I manage more than enough servers at work, and I don't want to manage another server in my pocket, do nitty-gritty settings, allow selected apps background ac…

I don't want to manage my iPhone like I do a Linux server. But I would like the ability to sign up for Netflix or other streaming services when I first launch the app. Or, failing that, I'd like a message on that app telling me where I have to go to sign-up. I'd like to be able to buy Kindle books directly on my phone and start reading them. I'd like to use a different web browser engine at times. All of those things…

Interesting that you mention the kindle - wouldn't it also be nice to be able to buy Apple Books on your Kindle hardware? You also can't do that. You can root some Kindles and install other software, but is more or less like jailbreaking an iPhone.

The issue I have with people going after Apple is that _everyone_ does this more or less.

Broadly, I have the fewest complaints about the restrictions in Apple's ecosystem as a user.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#734

Post by edgyquant » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 2:36 PM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #642

bayindirh wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is here consistently in any Apple discussion exactly this reaction? Because the only mobile OS provider which allows blinding tracking frameworks with a single click is Apple currently, and every software vendor will want its telemetry and ads for their "monies". The application model evolved from "pay this to get that" to "train this AI implicitly which we gonna use against you, and ah, we also sell your every…

If you mean browsing web, the freedom I talk about allows you on Android to install Firefox and ublock origin (and other plugins), which is more privacy friendly solution in-the-box than Apple will ever allow to be installed on any Apple device. If you mean apps installed its your choice what you put on your device. Lets not forget the stuff you (and most of us) so loathe is direction Apple is actively heading for fe…

You can install Firefox on an iPhone

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#735

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 2:38 PM UTC

achenet wrote: post #714

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's technically an option to go out of business by removing your app from the Apple App Store.

if your business is that fragile, maybe you should change your business.

That statement practically applies to every internet business. What would happen if they all left the App Store?

What would happen if Roblox, Spotify, Facebook, Snapchat, Instagram, Tinder, TikTok, etc. pulled their apps from Apple's platform?

I imagine they'd all take a grave hit to revenue but Apple users would be furious.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#736

Post by ragazzina » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

bogomipz wrote: post #78

>"So how much longer will we look away from this threat to the future of the internet? How many more consumers will be denied choice? There's been a lot of talk. Talk is helpful but we need action," Ek wrote." This from a man who built a company that has forced most of the artists on its platform to give away their work for pennies. This man has no problem with the "threat" to their livelihoods. And who can forget th…

>Daniel Ek is a hypocrite and an ass. He is best ignored.

Do you think arguments from hypocrites and asses should be ignored?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#737

Post by dublinben » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 2:41 PM UTC

sho_hn wrote: post #650

geraldwhen wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Google play store is heavily censored and moderated and most users don’t know about side loading.

A sibling argument is saying that if side-loading were opt in, major apps would move to require it from users. This has never happened on Android.

Epic's enormously popular game Fortnite was removed from the Google Play store in 2020 for violating their in-app purchase policies, so they publish it in their own sideloaded app store.[0]

[0] https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/fortnite-removed-from-g...

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#738

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 2:43 PM UTC

Internet companies should boycott the App Store and pull their apps at the same time.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#739

Post by boringg » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 2:43 PM UTC

donmcronald wrote: post #5

I want the option to control my devices. I don’t understand the arguments that claim Apple needs to rule the device with an iron fist. What problems does it cause to make the locked down experience the default with the option for me to disable that and take control of the device after I buy it? I want to own my stuff. I want to repair it and I want complete control over it. I think that in 10 years we’ll all have car…

I want to point out the cognitive dissonance here. Spotify is a subscription based product that completely removes your ability to own and control your music (I lose songs all the time super frustrating because of whatever deals spotify has in the background with the record labels).

Your comment while valid doesn't really work with the example Spotify CEO railing against Apple. That said your frustrating is valid and there are many good points here as to why that model is no longer in vogue and you might be the minority in the public (I sympathize with you).

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#740

Post by dublinben » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 2:44 PM UTC

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #651

laserlight wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would giving people the ability to opt out of Apple's ultra-managed experience and take more control over their device harm your ability to continue to enjoy those benefits? Yes, it would, because will require you to opt-out of Apple's ultra-managed experience to use their app.

> Yes, it would, because will require you to opt-out of Apple's ultra-managed experience to use their app. So, which " " is making you do this on android, where you can actually sideload apps?

Fortnite was removed from the Google Play store in 2020 for violating the in-app purchase policies, so Epic publishes it in their own sideloaded app store.[0]

[0] https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/fortnite-removed-from-g...