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Crypto exchange AAX suspends withdrawals

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Re: Crypto exchange AAX suspends withdrawals

#731

Post by freejazz »

wizeman wrote: post #728
freejazz wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for explaining something to me that I did not require explanation of

> Thanks for explaining something to me that I did not require explanation of It didn't seem like you understood the value of the expression "not your keys, not your coins", because you argued for the legal position, which implied that the legal position was more significant and that holding the keys didn't have as much value (even though it's the only one that actually ensures that you don't lose the coins). Another…

I didn't argue for the legal position. I pointed out that "not your keys, not your wallet" is a trite statement that doesn't account for the reality we live in, in which property law is a thing. But very generous of you to explain it again and to do so so welcomely!!

Re: Crypto exchange AAX suspends withdrawals

#732

Post by fragmede »

dibt wrote: post #730
dragontamer wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You DO own the ETH. Personal wallets cannot participate in ETH staking and you know it. The first step is to transfer your ETH to a large scale, trusted wallet, like Coinbase's wallet. What you own is an IOU from Coinbase saying they owe you the ETH at a future date. The value of this IOU is taxable of course. But the important thing is that if Coinbase goes bankrupt, it is an unsecured IOU / bond that is junior to…

> The first step is to transfer your ETH to a large scale, trusted wallet, like Coinbase's wallet. Absolutely FALSE. I don't know how you could possibly be so confidently wrong. One of the big selling points of PoS is that you don't need mining facility/hardware. You only need 32 ETH, and the resources to run the node. NO central entity is required. From: https://ethereum.org/en/staking/#how-to-stake-your-eth "Solo s…

"Only". Retail price of 32 ETH is about $40k USD which seems like a lot to me.

Re: Crypto exchange AAX suspends withdrawals

#733

Post by smcl »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #182
smcl wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re point #2 - this is one of the crazy things for me. When you work in finance, in the UK at least, you get it drilled into your head what "client money" is, what that implies, what you can do with it, and notably you get reminded during any training session the size of the fines that get imposed on people who fuck with client money. So to me it suggests that they simply don't employ anyone with any experience in ban…

It's worse than that. FTX's regulation and compliance officer was previously the legal representation for a shady online poker operation that used a bunch of offshore shell companies and whatnot to avoid US law for years. It's clear FTX's posture was to maximally avoid regulation.

That might explain a lot of what went down

Re: Crypto exchange AAX suspends withdrawals

#734

Post by wizeman »

freejazz wrote: post #731
wizeman wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thanks for explaining something to me that I did not require explanation of It didn't seem like you understood the value of the expression "not your keys, not your coins", because you argued for the legal position, which implied that the legal position was more significant and that holding the keys didn't have as much value (even though it's the only one that actually ensures that you don't lose the coins). Another…

I didn't argue for the legal position. I pointed out that "not your keys, not your wallet" is a trite statement that doesn't account for the reality we live in, in which property law is a thing. But very generous of you to explain it again and to do so so welcomely!!

> I pointed out that "not your keys, not your wallet" is a trite statement that doesn't account for the reality we live in, in which property law is a thing.

So again, you are still interpreting the expression literally?

It doesn't mean that they are not literally your coins if you don't have the keys! Do you understand this?

It means that you can lose the coins forever if you don't have them securely stored yourself.

It's not a literal statement, it's a concise expression that gets used repeatedly to get a very important point across unsuspecting (unexperienced, novice) crypto holders. So it's actually good that it's a trite statement, because it helps to decrease the probability of someone losing money, potentially ruining their lives unexpectedly.

So that the reality is not literally what the expression says is besides the point!

In fact, I've never heard of someone (besides you) that has interpreted this expression literally and actually thought that the expression means that you completely lose the ownership of the coins as soon as you transfer them into a crypto exchange.

But if you want, I'm sure you can propose a better phrasing that has the same viral effect while also being literally true.

> But very generous of you to explain it again and to do so so welcomely!!

Glad to be of service!

Re: Crypto exchange AAX suspends withdrawals

#735

Post by dontbenebby »

lbriner wrote: post #7

Forgive my ignorance but it seems that one major problem with crypto-exchanges is that they don't necessarily have any assets other than the crypto that has been deposited there, which means all overheads (which I am assuming for some of these guys is $Ms/year) can only come from trading crypto unless they are charging reasonable money for the privilege of using their exchanges. In the FIAT world, banks make tonnes o…

No post body was provided.

Re: Crypto exchange AAX suspends withdrawals

#736

Post by freejazz »

wizeman wrote: post #734
freejazz wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't argue for the legal position. I pointed out that "not your keys, not your wallet" is a trite statement that doesn't account for the reality we live in, in which property law is a thing. But very generous of you to explain it again and to do so so welcomely!!

> I pointed out that "not your keys, not your wallet" is a trite statement that doesn't account for the reality we live in, in which property law is a thing. So again, you are still interpreting the expression literally? It doesn't mean that they are not literally your coins if you don't have the keys! Do you understand this? It means that you can lose the coins forever if you don't have them securely stored yourself…

>So again, you are still interpreting the expression literally?

People use it literally all the time. I don't buy that people mean it figuratively. Maybe you do. But this statement is banded out so often and with no regard to the situation except where the coins are gone, it reflects little insight into the situation besides what I have pointed out.

I am happy for you that you find such meaning in the statement. That you read that statement and it means, to you, so much more than what it says.

> It's not a literal statement, it's a concise expression that gets used repeatedly to get a very important point across unsuspecting (unexperienced, novice) crypto holders.

A group of people who just so happen to think that the crypto is somehow exempt from the law, which they reflect with statements like "not your keys, not your crypto" which is said with absolutely no reflection on how property law works. It's not as if this is even a new thing, intangible property has existed long before crypto. Yet in the crypto world, the statement which you find so meaningful goes so far!

Re: Crypto exchange AAX suspends withdrawals

#737

Post by kergonath »

gruez wrote: post #262
ethanbond wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you realize that banks (and individuals) could have all the advantages of decentralization if they just chose to be decentralized too, right? This prompts the question: why are they so centralized? It turns out the advantages of centralization are more significant than the advantages of decentralization, and this is true even in a market with religious orientation toward decentralization . All you've gotta do to…

>But you realize that banks (and individuals) could have all the advantages of decentralization if they just chose to be decentralized too, right? The closest you can get to decentralization with the traditional finance system is to withdraw and store cash, which is expensive/risky and causes inflation to eat away at your savings. Good luck with other parts of the finance system (eg. investments or loans). It's ironi…

> The closest you can get to decentralization with the traditional finance system is to withdraw and store cash, which is expensive/risky and causes inflation to eat away at your savings.

I don’t see how it’s any different from the situation with, say, bitcoin. If you store a bitcoin, it just sits there, and its value follows that of the market. The fact that bitcoin is deflationary has nothing to do with decentralisation; a central bank could do that as well. They don’t because deflation is a terrible way of running an economy, not because it’s not possible.

> Good luck with other parts of the finance system (eg. investments or loans).

You could loan cash as well and get interests from that. Decentralised, anonymous, not traceable in any practical sense if you use regular used notes. Again, this has nothing to do with cryptocurrencies. The infrastructure that was built on top of cryptocurrencies enable doing it at larger scales and over longer distances, but that’s not a qualitative difference (besides the fact that this tends to concentration, running against the decentralisation ideal).

> It's ironic how you portray centralization as something that people willingly engaged in because it was beneficial,

It’s something that emerged because of economies of scale. Personally, I feel much safer with my money with an institution that is big and resilient enough that I am very close to 100% certain that it’ll still exist tomorrow. This can also be done with cryptocurrencies, but against this goes against the dogmatic ideal of decentralisation.

> the government refusing to make high denomination bills

How is it a problem in practice?

> instituting a monetary policy that causes inflation

Mild inflation is much better than deflation from an economic point of view. What do you think are the advantages of deflation? I can see the “the value of my pile keeps getting bigger”, but how would that work e.g. for farmers who need to invest to produce food, or people who need a loan to buy a house, if the whole system is deflationary?

But again, that’s a red herring because central banks can have deflationary policies. They don’t because that causes the economy to contract, unemployment to rise, and investments to fall.

Re: Crypto exchange AAX suspends withdrawals

#738

Post by dibt »

fragmede wrote: post #732
dibt wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first step is to transfer your ETH to a large scale, trusted wallet, like Coinbase's wallet. Absolutely FALSE. I don't know how you could possibly be so confidently wrong. One of the big selling points of PoS is that you don't need mining facility/hardware. You only need 32 ETH, and the resources to run the node. NO central entity is required. From: https://ethereum.org/en/staking/#how-to-stake-your-eth "Solo s…

"Only". Retail price of 32 ETH is about $40k USD which seems like a lot to me.

Compared to Bitcoin mining hardware that will need to be fixed/replaced/upgraded and housed physically, it's relatively cheap.

There's a technical reason explained here:

https://kyrianalex.substack.com/p/why-32-eth-was-required-fo...

It can be changed. It's what was chosen at the time based on the design of the network.

Re: Crypto exchange AAX suspends withdrawals

#739

Post by dragontamer »

fragmede wrote: post #732
dibt wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first step is to transfer your ETH to a large scale, trusted wallet, like Coinbase's wallet. Absolutely FALSE. I don't know how you could possibly be so confidently wrong. One of the big selling points of PoS is that you don't need mining facility/hardware. You only need 32 ETH, and the resources to run the node. NO central entity is required. From: https://ethereum.org/en/staking/#how-to-stake-your-eth "Solo s…

"Only". Retail price of 32 ETH is about $40k USD which seems like a lot to me.

I remember the cash number as being much higher, but I guess 32 ETH is not worth as much as it used to be a few months ago...

One benefit to this crashing price. It makes these kind of set numbers easier to hit I guess.

Re: Crypto exchange AAX suspends withdrawals

#740

Post by rmbyrro »

lbriner wrote: post #7

Forgive my ignorance but it seems that one major problem with crypto-exchanges is that they don't necessarily have any assets other than the crypto that has been deposited there, which means all overheads (which I am assuming for some of these guys is $Ms/year) can only come from trading crypto unless they are charging reasonable money for the privilege of using their exchanges. In the FIAT world, banks make tonnes o…

Banks don't make money from mortgages and loans, but from deposits. Our financial system uses fractional reserve. When you deposit $1 in a bank account, they are allowed to have ~10x that, or $10. They can literally create virtual money and deposit on other people's accounts (loans).

From $1 deposit, they make 900% instantly.

From $1 loan, they make 5-10% a year.

Crypto exchanges can't create money. Unless they have their own tokens. But even these tokens have more transparency than our current financial system.

So yes, they're pushed to handle their customers' money in risky ways to make a profit.

It's dumb. Against the whole point of decentralization...

It's like hosting every TOR node on AWS.

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