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What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

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Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#731

Post by nervlord »

balls187 wrote: post #455
nsxwolf wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that mean? Just about anyone can get into a school, or get a job.

> What does that mean? Worrying that kids may not be able to get into a decent school because they're not diverse enough seems like a a nice problem to have--parents of "diverse" children have much larger worries. > Just about anyone can get into a school, or get a job. Wouldn't that mean that based on the equality of outcomes, it doesn't matter what type of school OP's kids go to, and therefore no reason to worry.

No post body was provided.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#732

Post by nervlord »

balls187 wrote: post #666
31337Logic wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Worrying that kids may not be able to get into a decent school because they're not diverse enough seems like a a nice problem to have--parents of "diverse" children have much larger worries. It only seems that way to you if you can't empathize with others. The OP makes a valid point. Any group that is caught in the crosshairs of discrimination will naturally be worried for their kids. It's not a "nice problem to ha…

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Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#733

Post by BlargMcLarg »

etchalon wrote: post #595
BlargMcLarg wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the gotcha you think it is. Sibling already pointed some things out. Specifically for doctors, go ahead and look up what specializations men go into primarily and what specializations women go into primarily. The only high paying one I noticed being particularly female-dominated is dermatology, and it's not that much of a difference. The male-dominated specialties tend to have far more high earning specia…

It has not occurred to you that the historical data shows evidence of bias instead of evidence of choice and that's fascinating.

Oh please, do yourself a favor and perform a very simple litmus test. Ask how many men are willing to date homeless women and vice versa.

What's fascinating is how people are trying to avoid talking about the obvious motivator for men not present in women, and how the slow death of that motivator is affecting things.

Take a look in the mirror before trying to subtly call someone ignorant, would you?

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#734

Post by hintymad »

logicalmonster wrote: post #2

According to the Microsoft 2021 Annual Diversity And Inclusion report, 34.9% of employees identified as Asian in the US, far exceeding their overall representation in the US population. Why are Asians doing so well? Why can't we replicate this for other groups? And doesn't trying to hire more of other races imply that mathematically speaking, fewer Asians must be hired and promoted to achieve greater equality? Please…

"So well" as in academically or in STEM fields, right? One reason is the selection process. Or put it bluntly, genes matter. Asians, at least the FOBs in the STEM fields, mostly came to the US for graduate degrees first. They are, statistically speaking, already the top students who have a knack in STEM. If you are a techie in the Bay Area, try to count how many people are PhDs in a social gathering.

I have yet encountered anyone in my circle in the bay area who had any difficulty with high-school math, and none who did not excel at least most of college-level STEM classes. On the other hand, many of my coworkers are medalists in national or international competitions of maths/physics/chemistry/informatics, or they were in the top 2% for those college entrance exams. The bias was so strong that I used to think that tutoring was useless and the education in the US was pathetic because many high school students couldn't understand simple things like factoring polynomials. So, of course they do well, statistically speaking. On the other hand, not all Asians do well in other fields, especially in business and politics. Indians are more diverse in that regard, but people from mainland China didn't have a large enough presence, partly because only universities in China tended to select the nerdiest people for STEM, or so per my China friends.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#735

Post by firstSpeaker »

We are a European enterprise and we have contracts with special recruitment firm for DEI quota. We had the opportunity to hire some amazing and technical folks through them. People with special hobbies and interests that would really make a different and add a new dimension to conversations.

The growing issue is the increasing number of employees coming in with skillset below 50% of current peers. Not all from EDI source, but for sure majority. Higher skilled engineers are leaving because they need to do more and more work to keep up the systems operational and that results in more and more of the skilled folks leaving.

Trying to explain this to VPs and directors and they would just say dont choose them! The interview system is set in a way that we get a bunch of resume without names and we need to stack them. HR contact as many of them as they feel good about and there goes the round of interviews. After the interviews we stack the results and hand it over to the management. And they decide whom to hire based on the stacked results and their own infallible judgment.

Sadly it also reflects poorly on people who are good and come in with DEI budget. They need to spend more times earning trust.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#736

Post by spangry »

nsxwolf wrote: post #456

I shut my mouth at work and go along with this stuff because I have no choice. I have a family to take care of. I've accepted this. But man, why do they always throw in the line about striving to make the workplace a "diverse and inclusive culture where everyone can bring their full and authentic self"? Everyone knows that's a goddamn lie. I almost want to cry when I read that - it makes me so angry. I haven't been a…

"In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to." — Theodore Dalrymple

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#737

Post by psd1 »

torstenvl wrote: post #502
nsxwolf wrote: post #456

I shut my mouth at work and go along with this stuff because I have no choice. I have a family to take care of. I've accepted this. But man, why do they always throw in the line about striving to make the workplace a "diverse and inclusive culture where everyone can bring their full and authentic self"? Everyone knows that's a goddamn lie. I almost want to cry when I read that - it makes me so angry. I haven't been a…

> Everyone knows that's a goddamn lie. I almost want to cry when I read that "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. His heart sank as he thought of the enormous power arrayed against him." Racism is anti-racist. Objective thinking is biased. Burning down cities is mostly peaceful protest.

No post body was provided.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#738

Post by psd1 »

notch656a wrote: post #517
peter422 wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perfect, so you have no problem with Microsoft having this policy! Problem solved.

I don't follow the logic that suggests that because I have no personal problem, a problem doesn't exist.

Splendid, we agree. I'm expensively-educated but not particularly talented. Inner-city kids who are smarter than me don't have anything like my opportunities. I have no personal problem, but a problem exists.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#740

Post by psd1 »

Cyberdog wrote: post #489
sascha_sl wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever been involved with hiring? The first stage - reading CVs - is not exactly the greatest point in time to judge people as individuals, if they're even read beyond a short skim. It is the biggest opportunity for unconscious bias to reject a candidate.

I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying that we shouldn't consider people as individuals when reading their CV because that's when unconscious bias may lead to their rejection? If the latter is true, then shouldn't we do the former all the more?

Maybe. But instead we're training AI.
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