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FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

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Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#731

Post by throw10920 »

neon_electro wrote: post #506
unityByFreedom wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please elaborate on what other "version of capitalism" is necessary. Hope we are not advocating that everything be owned by the state, as if that would allow more competition.

Please be more creative than your assumption that trying to do better than capitalism means everything becomes state-owned. Markets have value, capitalism is materially different from a market economy.

This is a low-value comment that doesn't add any value to the conversation. GP explicitly asked "Please elaborate on what other "version of capitalism" is necessary." which this comment does not attempt to answer, the language used here is unnecessarily abrasive, and the "assumption" this comment claims was made by GP doesn't actually exist.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#733

Post by throw10920 »

markus_zhang wrote: post #319
nonrandomstring wrote: post #159

This seems an intractable mess. - Our phone hardware and operating systems are intrinsically insecure. - There is no practical/effective data gathering regulation (and I'm not sure it's possible to craft any without destroying innovation) - All social media companies are doing it, leading to jeers of "hypocrisy!" - All governments play the same games, reducing the arguments to "Whose side are you on?" That's effectiv…

Sadly none of this is doable in the current version of capitalism (and in pretty much every country that is drinking from it). Corporation interests, especially those of large corporations, override pretty much everything else.

What exactly do you mean by "capitalism" here?

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#734

Post by kergonath »

retzkek wrote: post #596
kergonath wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not. When I go shopping I give them a bill and I get something to eat. Both parties are better off after that transaction. Similarly, if I am good at making stuff but terrible at growing stuff, by being in a community I can survive despite an utter lack of agricultural abilities and produce stuff that the farmers would not know how to make. Again, not zero sum. You could argue that this is civilisation and unna…

> Both parties are better off after that transaction. What about the externalities of that transaction? * If meat, what was killed to produce it? If veg, what was removed from the ground (and how will it be replaced)? * Who was exploited in the production? * What damage did you cause while traveling to the store? * What damage was done while getting the goods/supplies to the store? * What infrastructure was required…

> What about the externalities of that transaction?

You’re entirely right, though for now I am indeed going to wave my hands and argue that it was a first-order simplification, and that externalities do not turn it into a zero-sum game :)

In the grand scheme of things, yes, lack of foresight is going to bite us in the backside.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#735

Post by Clubber »

tylersmith wrote: post #712
Clubber wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A republic is a form of democracy. This strange differentiation came about as a GOP talking point in the early 2000s. I'm amazed that it is still repeated 20 year later. Saying the US is not a democracy but a constitutional republic is like saying a car is not an automobile. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic

The differences and potential compromises between various democracies and republics were discussed and debated quite at length when the original US governments were iterating toward the Constitution. It's certainly not just a 20 year old GOP talking point.

The founders were well aware that what they were creating was a republic AND form of democracy. To argue otherwise is silly.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#736

Post by verelo »

ricardobeat wrote: post #272
pleb_nz wrote: post #267

The other side of the coin that I experience in my circles is parents and people just don't care. Everyone I talk with about pretty much says the same thing along the lines of 'if they want to look at my diddly Doo this then they're most welcome too'. A lot of people generally really don't care a hoot about this stuff.

It’s easy to not care if you don’t get the full picture. The data in question is not “your diddly doo”, but the aggregated diddly-doos of 200 million people and the insights and power it provides.

Again, did i say i don’t care? Are you trying to be constructive here or should i refer you to Reddit?

Exception handling matters. Your attitude towards these edge cases is likely damaging the argument that you and i both seem to agree on: allowing anon reviews is healthy, freedom of saying what you feel to be fair and true is important. The issue as i see it is if companies ask to let themselves self regulate via moderation of some form, yet allow damage to occur as that’s important to their business model, they have to expect courts and eventually public sentiment to shift perspectives. This is why i say, the attitude of not handling these exceptions well is dangerous and likely damaging to the objective of freedom of expression. The model needs improving to protect privacy yet prevent damage to private individual and businesses. News papers have been publishing retractions for hundreds of years, if it wasn’t for this their business would also have died long ago.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#737

Post by colinmhayes »

scotuswroteus wrote: post #728
jpk wrote: post #33

Lots of folks here arguing that the focus on TikTok is unfair, given the data collection practices of domestic corps like Facebook. From a privacy point of view, this argument is well-founded, but I think it's tangential to the argument TFA is making, which is: this data collection done by a foreign government and exploited for surveillance or espionage is a national security risk. I get it. We want corps to stop hoo…

>plus it puts a geopolitical adversary in control of the data, countless devices, and a media channel central to the current cultural zeitgeist. You should interrogate your assumption that the government inside the state lines is less "adversarial" to everyone's interests than the one outside state lines, even at a level of geopolitics.

The government is the one deciding what adversarial means here. Of course they’re not going to label themselves or domestic companies they regulate national security adversaries.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#738

Post by colinmhayes »

8note wrote: post #690
cowtools wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA is a democracy. Arguing otherwise is the pot calling the kettle black.

I can't vote in american elections. Being a democracy is no solace to the people for whom the US is a foreign government.

Then maybe your country should designate American social media companies national security adversaries.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#739

Post by okasaki »

Xeoncross wrote: post #729
okasaki wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the US have dissidents?

Half the US seems to be dissidents depending on who you ask - but they aren't being rounded up and sent to reeducation camps or having their organs harvested. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests...

Wow, half of the US population are dissidents. Is that what they call themselves? Is that what the government calls them?

Or did you just make it up and it's a word reserved for people in nations you hate?

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#740

Post by vanderZwan »

geysersam wrote: post #566
vanderZwan wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which means that all countries other than the US also should be banning Facebook In case you hadn't heard (I presume you have, us being on HN and all), there is some movement within the EU towards that end

Blatantly false. Completely unrealistic. Additional regulation towards privacy perhaps - affecting all similar (American, Chinese, European etc.) platforms. But not an outright ban. Facebook threatening to close their site in Europe because of regulations is not the same as EU banning them.

> There is a risk Europeans won’t be able to use Facebook after the Irish data protection agency (DPC) doubles down on stopping data transfer between the US and the E.U.

https://blog.simpleanalytics.com/eu-moving-closer-to-faceboo...

I dunno, "stopping data transfer" sounds like a ban by another name to me.

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