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Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

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Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#731

Post by borroka »

Let's try with a metaphor.

I am a man (it works better from this point of view) on a dating app, with a few blurry pictures making up my profile. It kinda looks like I look ok, but who knows. I reach out to a good-looking and engaging woman (the "seniority") and I tell her that I am possibly interested in her being my partner, I can provide and care for her (that's what I say, she does not know whether in reality I can or cannot do it), but before I make my offer, she has to take professional photos, answer to a 4-hour survey, a couple of calls of 30 to 45 minutes each when she is asked about her previous experience with relationships, then introduce herself to my family and friends and see if they are ok with her.

Then, maybe I will make an offer. And, maybe, an offers she would like.

I don't know why I have troubles finding a partner.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#732

Post by pclmulqdq »

derivagral wrote: post #717
rahimnathwani wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PSA: For those who don't fully understand the second paragraph above, be sure to google 'liquidation preference' before you're next evaluating an offer that includes equity or options in a private company.

I've never been at a company that was quite so liberal with their term sheet. Small or large, nobody wants to talk about it. My last place had a bunch of bickering in their allhands for a few months over total diluted outstanding and similar relevant equity metrics being kept secret.

You're not going to be able to hire someone senior without telling them how much they are making. This trick only works on college students and people who are really passionate.

Startups have a lot of toxic expectations around keeping those term sheets secret for no good reason.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#733

Post by Clubber »

cwilkes wrote: post #597
bigiain wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Alternatively, perhaps pay people to complete the assignments. That doesn't solve the majority of the "senior position" problem. Like you point out, your schedule does not have a "spare" 4 hour block in it, and paying you $1000 to find one is not going to make you jump at the opportunity if the alternative is a different role that is not asking for a 4 hour block of your family time. Anybody recruiting for "senior…

But going onsite or remote interviewing for 4 hours is more reasonable? Looking at the original post they have a 4 hour at home coding assignment that’s followed up by a group presentation. I’m guessing that one is an hour or so. Figure another hour or two to prepare for that. It doesn’t seem like it is much off from a typical 5-6 hour on site interview. Plus I think you can get more of a signal about how they can ex…

>But going onsite or remote interviewing for 4 hours is more reasonable?

I would never subject myself to a 4 hour interview either. What information can a company get in 4 hours they can't get in 1 hour? Seems like a massive waste of time done by a hiring process created by people that don't know any better.

If you want seniors to even consider you, you need to ditch all that garbage and save it for people fresh in the field.

Now if you are willing to pay double market rates you'll get more seniors willing to go through that, but if you are paying "market" rates and "good" benefits, you're not going to get the interest.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#734

Post by mym1990 »

gleenn wrote: post #485
mym1990 wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say take what most 'financially savvy' people say with a grain of salt and go ahead and do your own research or find an actual professional to sort through the details. The average lifespan of a company on the S&P 500 is dropping fairly quickly, which puts the risk of a single investment going to 0(or on a long haul downward trend) higher.

Obviously "doing your own research" is good but I think the question is totally reasonable in a tech forum where probably a very large percentage of people here have gone through this process. Also, they asked specifically about Apple. Companies that are sitting on massive amounts of cash and have trillion dollar valuations don't disappear over night, they're not gonna "drop out of the S&P" any time in the foreseeabl…

I guess not

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#735

Post by m3047 »

jitix wrote: post #100
AndyNemmity wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, take home technical assignment. Why would I ever? I'd much rather have a comfortable conversation with someone who has worked with me in the past. I'm never, ever doing a 4 hour assignment for you.

But isn't the alternative to take home assignment leetcoding on whiteboards? Last time I was interviewing in the US market was in 2017 and it was literally just these two options. And the assignments tended to be long - like a week long. (tbh there were a few companies that pre-offered and just wanted one general discussion round with the team but they felt shady and desperate, and one was a literal consultancy) Coul…

I have four projects on GitHub with over 50 stars between them. I've submitted PRs for scapy and dnspython. Where's yours, recruiter? Need to pass me to someone? Ok. Good, now we have something to talk about / through. That's the technical part.

I'm senior. Got something I haven't seen? That and some stalking on LinkedIn or emailing and asking for a resume or just to say "hi", seems to be working for some recruiters out there.

OP is hiring for a devops role and has to mention k8s in their pleading. Anybody who mentions k8s to me as something I need to know immediately wins a quizzing regarding what their assets are and what are they doing with it which is so unique that they'd need my expertise; that's usually the end of it. To be clear: I am senior enough to know that doing k8s safely would be THE job, so not making it THE job means you don't meet my quality standards. Other people need my help more than you do, and I don't care what you pay.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#736

Post by NSMutableSet »

aledalgrande wrote: post #728
lordnacho wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this will get more common with remote working. Start a new role, then dump it if one of the other searches turns up a better one. I think FAANG has something to do with this too. They're often known to be slow in coming up with the offer, often seeming like they're not going to proceed. A friend started working at a startup, then got a top Google offer, dumped the startup for the better job that came in later…

Yeah reputation is still a thing...

You should be happy for them.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#737

Post by aledalgrande »

NSMutableSet wrote: post #736
aledalgrande wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah reputation is still a thing...

You should be happy for them.

Let's see if you say the same thing when you interview 10+ candidates and you accept one like this, rejecting all the others since you filled the position.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#738

Post by m3047 »

lostdog wrote: post #33
corrral wrote: post #21

> Take-home technical assignment (~4h) or similar at candidate's choosing If I can get a similarly-paying job at a place that doesn't do this, I'll skip you. Many seniors ( actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors) have a network and can say "hey I'm looking" and instantly have multiple options that won't have them do more than talk to the team and manager for an hour or two. If that.

It looks like the take-home replaces a full day of 1-1 interviews. That does seem reasonable (though I personally think it's the wrong trade, and the 1-1 interviews are more informative).

It's asymmetric warfare, as the interviewer gets to clone it... like software... and then demands proof of work from the applicant.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#739

Post by ghaff »

grepfru_it wrote: post #604
ghaff wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How surprisingly sensible. :-)

Except now the IRS will be watching bank accounts for any transaction totaling over $600 to combat this loophole. Good luck!

They don't need to watch bank accounts. Companies are supposed to issue 1099s for payments over $600.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#740

Post by dekhn »

ls15 wrote: post #614
SkyPuncher wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you hire a Michelin star chef do you make them make you a four course meal to prove they can cook? > Do you make a surgeon do four hour surgery? These are both poor examples. These are both credentialed examples. Both have already demonstrated their skill based on the credentials they hold. Software development is not a credentialed field. Titles vary wildly - especially at startups where titles inflate.

Shouldn't a CS degree from a reputable university then just replace all the screening that is made for people without relevant degrees?

only if you're hiring somebody to be a CS major.
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