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It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

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Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#731

Post by dehrmann »

hw wrote: post #499
lekevicius wrote: post #199

It's even more frustrating, because the game is good . I really enjoyed playing the first 30 levels or so. Good story, good controls, very satisfying gameplay. If I could pay $60 and just have a "classic" Diablo on my phone, I might. But I won't spend a cent on consumable in-app purchases. It is so sad that "make good game, sell it" model no longer works. It's all a wonky curve of "free - couple of dollars - hundreds…

> It is so sad that "make good game, sell it" model no longer works. It's all a wonky curve of "free - couple of dollars - hundreds and thousands of dollars". Same can be said for software. Now it’s all SaaS where you have to pay monthly and choose from different pricing tiers or ala carte feature options to ‘win’ in a business sense.

> Now it’s all SaaS where you have to pay monthly

You have to upgrade eventually, though. In theory, the SaaS product could be priced the same as the shrink-wrapped version, just divided by 60 months. I suspect it's more expensive, though.

All things being equal, if I ran IT, I'd rather have the SaaS model because I'll always have the latest version and not have to deal with the drama of upgrades every 5 years. I'd also prefer it as the vendor because I don't need to support multiple versions of the software long-term.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#732

Post by eknkc »

Foomf wrote: post #310
eknkc wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Switch (got it when I had a surgery to ease the long recovery). The Nintendo IP is almost completely bullshit free. The success of Switch is nice too. FromSoftware is another bastion of hope. The popularity of Elden Ring is no coincidence.

Why did you feel the need to justify your Switch purchase? Do people judge others over that sort of thing?

Haha no, I wanted to emphasize how they are even doing the hardware different. The mobile form factor did fit my needs. Just fell short on the explanation.

BTW gamer community is fucked up and people will judge each other on every single detail so you are not far off.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#733

Post by maccard »

Dunban4 wrote: post #684
maccard wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the full market price of a f2p game? Why is it ok for narrative content to be considered a DLC but cosmetic content to be considered microtransactions?

> Many non-F2P MMOs have a subscription model instead. The market price quota would be based on the market price of subscriptions > Assets such as new models and textures are the simplest skeletons of a game. A new feature is comparable to a side game and a narrative could be an entire game on its own ie: CYOA To clarify, the 2 criterions should be 'best practices' and not hard enforceable rules. However, games that…

> To clarify, the 2 criterions should be 'best practices' and not hard enforceable rules. However, games that don't adhere to the best practice should have the stigma associated with the ratings M or AO. An adult should be capable of judging the poor value of microtransactions and have the choice to suffer the consequences of consensual decisions at their own expense.

What makes you think that it's children being exploited and not adults? I've worked on a few f2p multiplayer games and the player bases are usually older than you are implying. It's not 12 year olds using their parents credit cards the vast majority of the time (and when it is, its rare enough that there's a news story about it).

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#734

Post by ZeroGravitas »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #657
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common trope. When you're arguing against something that is obviously good, there's not many avenues left, so you hit the same three again and again: * According to the perversity thesis, any purposive action to improve some feature of the political, social, or economic order only serves to exacerbate the condition one wishes to remedy. * The futility thesis holds that attempts at social transformation will…

None of those apply here.

> They will just move on to countries with less regulation, which usually means poorer countries with less educated people.

This is #3, a threat that any type of action will harm poor people.

> Banning rarely accomplishes anything, it just moves one appearance of the problem out of sight for a period of time.

This is #2, futility in its widest sense. Not just this ban won't work, no bans work!

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#735

Post by sgjohnson »

fomine3 wrote: post #727
sgjohnson wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. No ads and no in-app-purchases in Apple Arcade games.

I wonder app developer could pull the app from Arcade and release "Free" version.

They can have an Apple Arcade version, and a "Free" pay-to-win version simulatenously. They don't even have to pull the Apple Arcade version.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#736

Post by DandyDev »

Aerroon wrote: post #405
DandyDev wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Going to end in disaster" -> that's hyperbole The fact that the Belgian and Dutch governments label these predatory microtransaction schemes as gambling, shows that they understand the subject matter perfectly fine. Yes, you and I can sensibly choose not to play those games or spend money on them. But lots of people can't. That's why laws regulating gambling exist. Nobody is saying that you can't play these games. T…

> Nobody is saying that you can't play these games. The Dutch and Belgian government quite literally are saying that you can't though. Of course, in practice it just means Dutch and Belgian players will pretend they're from another European country via VPN. > Those gaming companies just have to accept that their products are a form of gambling and will be regulated and taxed as such. I'm not sure if you're saying thi…

No, the Dutch and Belgian governments are saying you CAN play the game as long as it's changed to remove gambling aspects or is sold as a gambling product with all the consequences that entails.

Activision Blizzard doesn't want to do that. Not the fault of governments

And as for the (im)possibility to develop games that follow the laws of all countries: that had been successfully done for decades. It just doesn't involve predatory microtransactions

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#737

Post by dmarchand90 »

Timshel wrote: post #503
lekevicius wrote: post #199

It's even more frustrating, because the game is good . I really enjoyed playing the first 30 levels or so. Good story, good controls, very satisfying gameplay. If I could pay $60 and just have a "classic" Diablo on my phone, I might. But I won't spend a cent on consumable in-app purchases. It is so sad that "make good game, sell it" model no longer works. It's all a wonky curve of "free - couple of dollars - hundreds…

> It is so sad that "make good game, sell it" model no longer works. It's all a wonky curve of "free - couple of dollars - hundreds and thousands of dollars". What I find really sad is that multiple games have proven that there is a middle ground and that making a f2p while making enormous amount of money is possible (League of Legend ...) and using such predatory system that are so prevalent on mobile is not the onl…

I believe there is a deep disease of extreme and growing wealth inequality, whose symptoms are erupting in every area of our way of life. This is a good example. In a more wealth equal society you're financial motivated to build good products for all users. Now the entire system is geared to the whims of the rich

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#738

Post by Aerroon »

Fnoord wrote: post #687
Aerroon wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody is saying that you can't play these games. The Dutch and Belgian government quite literally are saying that you can't though. Of course, in practice it just means Dutch and Belgian players will pretend they're from another European country via VPN. > Those gaming companies just have to accept that their products are a form of gambling and will be regulated and taxed as such. I'm not sure if you're saying thi…

> The Dutch and Belgian government quite literally are saying that you can't though. Of course, in practice it just means Dutch and Belgian players will pretend they're from another European country via VPN. I am a Dutch player who played D1, D2, D3. I won't play Diablo Immortal. First of all the condescending comment about phones as well as the launch of D3 which made whatever this game is quite sour. Then they made…

>Of course they can work around it by not having P2W. Its that simple, really. How about make a damn good game and sell it?

Because the average player is not going to pay $100 for a game. Also, now you're lumping P2W and gambling together.

But all of this is beside the point. If you do not like games like this then you shouldn't play them. I want to still be able to play the games I choose. I don't need the government to try to "protect me" from this.

Do I like that games do this? No, but I can always choose not to play them. If people chose to not play them then they wouldn't monetize games like this, but it's pretty apparent that people are okay with this. You want to use force via the government to stop those people from doing something they want to do and using "it's for your own good" as an excuse.

Games will absolutely shut out countries where they feel that handing regulation is too much for them. This will include games that don't conflict with the regulation, but it's simply too risky to figure out whether they do or not.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#739

Post by permo-w »

lekevicius wrote: post #199

It's even more frustrating, because the game is good . I really enjoyed playing the first 30 levels or so. Good story, good controls, very satisfying gameplay. If I could pay $60 and just have a "classic" Diablo on my phone, I might. But I won't spend a cent on consumable in-app purchases. It is so sad that "make good game, sell it" model no longer works. It's all a wonky curve of "free - couple of dollars - hundreds…

it's the exact model that has taken over everything, just wearing a slightly different coloured hat.

give you the item for free or at a discount, then desperately try to enslave you to their payment model

people have been getting loans, mortgages and paying rent for centuries, but now it's moved onto phones, cars, apps, games, SAAS, free trials for streaming services, klarna, etc, etc, etc

they're all some variation on rent-seeking behaviour, they just vary in the form rent takes, and how they put the product in your hands in the first place

more modern iterations often don't forcibly take the rent, but use social pressures to coerce their userbase to the point where a % "voluntarily" pay rent. some still do forcibly take the rent.

the end result for you is a product in your hands, nearly always for cheaper than it would have been 15 years ago, but at either a lower quality, or a higher future cost

the end result for the "landlord" is almost a guarantee of projected earnings

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#740

Post by permo-w »

dmarchand90 wrote: post #737
Timshel wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is so sad that "make good game, sell it" model no longer works. It's all a wonky curve of "free - couple of dollars - hundreds and thousands of dollars". What I find really sad is that multiple games have proven that there is a middle ground and that making a f2p while making enormous amount of money is possible (League of Legend ...) and using such predatory system that are so prevalent on mobile is not the onl…

I believe there is a deep disease of extreme and growing wealth inequality, whose symptoms are erupting in every area of our way of life. This is a good example. In a more wealth equal society you're financial motivated to build good products for all users. Now the entire system is geared to the whims of the rich

the entire system is geared towards getting money from poor people

it's easier to afford ~£5 in 99p microtransactions every month for a year than it is to afford a £60 triple A

of course this isn't where the bulk of money comes from for these games (whales), but it's still a big factor

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