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Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

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Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#731

Post by BTCOG »

chrisseaton wrote: post #528
fundad wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um good luck finding the car of your choice these days. Even before pando/trade war an in-demand model took weeks or months while other cars sit on lots. We can’t argue that quality of life is sooo much better when production is such a mess. The only reason we hear the complaints is because of quality of life. People with money can handle $1 more for an order of pretzel nuggets but make them wait and extra 2 minutes…

> in-demand model took weeks or months while other cars sit on lots. America's model of making a bunch of random models and shipping them out to sit on lots in the hope someone wants that model is bizarre. In most other countries you order exactly what you want and they build it.

The reason is actually that it costs the factories more money to shut down and wait than to keep things running. So they keep producing cars and trucks without chips, and letting them sit in lots. I know this first hand with family and close friendships with folks in production management within General Motors, Dana Corp.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#732

Post by montblanc »

basisword wrote: post #700
montblanc wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maps, and the ability to read them. You basically need another passenger with you otherwise you'll have to do a lot of stops. I'd even say its a bit risky to drive like that. > Phones, you know good old land lines So you are saying having a high def video call with my brother living across the world, for free, is just like calling him in the 60s? It used to be crazy expensive to call abroad. And you couldn't see! >…

I’m not trying to be condescending but I’m guessing you’re pretty young? >> Try learning C++ in a library, good luck with that. How do you think people learnt to code before the internet? I borrowed large textbooks on Basic/VB, C++, and Turbo Pascal from friends and libraries. And this wasn’t a long time ago. I did this as recently as 2005. >> Do you physically develop all your photos? If you do you are an exception…

> How do you think people learnt to code before the internet? I borrowed large textbooks on Basic/VB, C++, and Turbo Pascal from friends and libraries. And this wasn’t a long time ago. I did this as recently as 2005.

I'm not denying that, I'm just sating progress was way slower - especially for newcomers before the internet. Imagine trying to solve problems without Google or Stackoverflow when you're a 15 old kid trying to learn programming. You're stuck on some shitty installation of Linux or some missing package and have no idea why the compiler gives this error message. How do you even get Linux? Have no idea how they did stuff back then but it was for sure harder to just to get something up and running. So easy to give up. Programming in that era used to be something 1 in maybe 50 children tried. It was no way near as accessible as it is today.

The flip side of that is that since it's now easier for everyone to learn new skills and solve problems, the requirements and expectations from workers pretty much went up proportionally.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#733

Post by [deleted] »

onion2k wrote: post #203
JimBlackwood wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at it from this point of view; if your employer is so unhappy with you that, even when you’ve shown your skill, he’s unwilling to pay you a competitive amount then it’s clear you don’t really have a future at your current job. A new company is willing to risk it on you, while paying more than your current job where you have experience. No surprise they leave in a year anyway.

if your employer is so unhappy with you that, even when you’ve shown your skill, he’s unwilling to pay you a competitive amount then it’s clear you don’t really have a future at your current job This is the crux of the problem - people assume that anyone going to their boss asking for a raise is underpaid. That isn't always true. When someone goes and finds a new role on more money it's almost always at a higher leve…

[deleted]

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#734

Post by Robotbeat »

Gareth321 wrote: post #250

Real wages have been flat since the 1970s ( https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us... ). "Okay, so people's living standards are about the same since 1970?" Not even close. The problem with inflation is that its calculation is fraught with all kinds of selective weighting, bias, and politics. Take a look at the relative differences between the things which have decreased and increased in cost in…

I honestly think simply raising the minimum wage gradually to inflation-adjusted $20/hour and then adjusting for productivity increases over time would permanently address these issues. Another option is to adjust based on local cost of housing, ie 4 times the average two bedroom apartment rent.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#735

Post by octoberfranklin »

dnautics wrote: post #570
commandlinefan wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Krugman's wrong, again. Has he ever been right?

Honestly, I am profoundly in disagreement with Krugman about everything, but that's because he's right about everything, but in wrong ways, usually due to a huge, huge, blind spot at the root. And it's frustrating that he can take people in with his analysis because it's easy to accept his arguments thinking "just hard enough" (which is catnip for lazy intellectuals). Like for example with the Babysitter's coop. His…

Paul Krugman is the Malcolm Gladwell of economics.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#736

Post by VirusNewbie »

gizmo wrote: post #341
Gareth321 wrote: post #250

Real wages have been flat since the 1970s ( https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us... ). "Okay, so people's living standards are about the same since 1970?" Not even close. The problem with inflation is that its calculation is fraught with all kinds of selective weighting, bias, and politics. Take a look at the relative differences between the things which have decreased and increased in cost in…

You state govt keeps inflation low by manipulating how it's calculated in order to keep the fed rate low, which insidiously keeps stocks up. And this happens, apparently, because the Fed really cares about news headlines? Does the ECB and BOJ enact the exact same policy but for unrelated (but equally conspiratorial) reasons? Are all the central banks and politicians around the world in cohorts, or is there something…

This is just factually incorrect that the stock market rising benefits 'regular people', the majority of stocks are held by the upper class.

Your whole argument fails because of that.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#737

Post by montblanc »

PickledHotdog wrote: post #501
deadbunny wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I in some kind of weird HN bubble where no-one has ever used a physical map? I've travelled extensively pre-turn by turn navigation using physical maps, i spent a year motorcycling across mainland Europe in my early 20's using nothing but physical maps, I did the same but in the US during the early-mid 2000's. Was it as easy as sticking a zip code into a magic box and having it tell me where to go and when to take…

I was having the same bizzaro-world thoughts. These guys are screwed if they ever come across a treasure map.

Well as a society we are super screwed if some event wipes out the internet or computers. The dependence is gonna keep increasing. I wonder when we'll hearing stories about Amazon servers shut downs inadvertently killing some people.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#738

Post by chrisseaton »

BTCOG wrote: post #731
chrisseaton wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in-demand model took weeks or months while other cars sit on lots. America's model of making a bunch of random models and shipping them out to sit on lots in the hope someone wants that model is bizarre. In most other countries you order exactly what you want and they build it.

The reason is actually that it costs the factories more money to shut down and wait than to keep things running. So they keep producing cars and trucks without chips, and letting them sit in lots. I know this first hand with family and close friendships with folks in production management within General Motors, Dana Corp.

The dealership and lot model has been the case in the US for many decades - it isn't anything caused by the pandemic or anything to do with the chip shortage.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#739

Post by octoberfranklin »

valdiorn wrote: post #395
bjarneh wrote: post #184

Not sure how inflation is calculated globally; but where I live (Norway) we leave housing costs out of inflation. That always seemed very strange to me. Our main cost of living, (which has gone through the roof the last 25 years) is somehow left out of the calculation. My rent, or cost of buying a house - is much more important than the cost of a Snickers bar.

In Iceland, we can't include housing in the calculation, become the vast majority of mortgages are inflation linked; meaning if inflation goes up, so does the remaining capital on your mortgage (yes, it's insane, if you want to know more there's articles online about it). If we included housing, it would push up mortgages, which would make housing more expensive, which would drive inflation, which would push up mortg…

Can you recommend a good article about how this works?

It sounds evil at first glance, but thinking about it some more it might be very good.

This discourages people from buying houses with leverage when they think inflation is going to accelerate. It won't help them, because the leverage is inflation-indexed! Here in the USA, every time inflation starts to accelerate people hoard housing; this causes all sorts of social problems.

Also: in the USA the only other ways for most ordinary people to easily hedge against inflation are buying gold or loaning money to the government (inflation-indexed government bonds). It sounds like your country has inflation-indexed mortgage bonds. I would rather lend money to my neighbor than my government.

Personally, I am incredibly impressed with how you guys dealt with the 2007 global financial crisis. You did the right thing: you threw the criminals in jail. Even though they were bankers. I now evaluate Iceland's economic policies from the starting assumption that they understand the world better than we do.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#740

Post by colinmhayes »

mc32 wrote: post #650
colinmhayes wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the post war period the US was manufacturing goods for not just domestic use, but for the entire world. Pretty much all industrial capability was here in that period, so foreigners were forced to buy American goods. Those days are over and are never coming back. Most countries have their own industrial base now. There will never again be american employment in manufacturing like there was in the post war period, e…

It’s not only manufacturing though. And we don’t have to export to the world. We just need to support our own manufacturing and our own service workers. My school janitors used to be able to send their kids to college and afford a humble house. Retail store clerks (Married with Children). All that is now cheap labor --you can't expect to pay a mortgage and send kids to college/uni. You may be able to afford the cheap…

Why do Americans deserve jobs over foreigners who are willing to do them for less?
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