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“Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

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Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#731

Post by dmurray »

napo wrote: post #675
throwaway894345 wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I remember the ordeal that was trying to cancel a cell phone plan when I was a broke student studying abroad. Had to plead with them in arcane, formal French (a real pain considering I wasn't even fluent in everyday, conversational French--ended up needing help from a native French friend) on stationary and they still rejected my cancellation and continued to charge my French bank account. I tried closing my Fre…

Funny, I had the opposite experience. I'm French and I spent 2 years in the US. I had a T-mobile subscription, and it was too painful to cancel my subscription. With my accent I could barely pass the robot that was trying to understand why I was calling. Then when I had someone on the phone, the call just dropped, in the middle of conversations. I did that a few times and then gave up. I assume I'll also receive a no…

This isn't really the opposite experience! You had the same experience, with banks headquartered in different countries. I still await the experience of your fellow ex-pat who spent their blood, sweat and tears to sign up for an expensive service but cancelled with the wave of a hand.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#732

Post by suifbwish »

xg15 wrote: post #167

> including an option that’s “at least as easy” as the one to subscribe Weirdly enough this sounds like a loophole. I can already see some companies trying to bullshit their way through an investigation: "Oh sure, we don't provide online cancellation, because our way to cancel is even easier than online:" * presents a way to cancel that is in practice more difficult than online *. I think either mandating that cancel…

What about GYMS that make you show up in person to cancel your subscription but make it so you have to talk with someone who doesn’t work very often.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#733

Post by lutorm »

I got this spiel from someone, don't remember who now. When they told me I needed to call to cancel, I responded "If you can process my subscription online, you can process my cancellation too. If you continue charging my credit card, I will charge back the transaction." Then it was suddenly possible to cancel online just fine.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#734

Post by lostgame »

Related to HN: this is part of the reason I always disliked the allowing of paywalled links on HN.

I've had several journalism publications that have pulled this bullshit, and; frankly - at this point it seems to be part of their core profit plan. Probably always was.

It's about goddamn time this was a law.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#735

Post by powersnail »

kelp wrote: post #704

California SB-313 ( https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm... ) was passed in 2018 and has this requirement: "... a consumer who accepts an automatic renewal or continuous service offer online shall be allowed to terminate the automatic renewal or continuous service exclusively online, which may include a termination email formatted and provided by the business that a consumer can send to the bu…

SiriusXM is the worst. My subscription came with the car, but luckily it wasn't auto-renewed. However, after my subscription expires, I got calls every single day from SiriusXM trying to get me to subscribe again. And each time, they used a different number. It was ridiculous.

In the end, I just pick up the call, and put the phone in my pocket. They still insisted on calling for about half a year before giving up.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#736

Post by alixanderwang »

"Email to cancel" isn't as insidious, but should also be illegal.

Superhuman does this. They responded promptly and cancelled my subscription, but nonetheless, that friction to not provide a synchronous button is always a deliberate choice, and often one that's telling of company values.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#737

Post by elliekelly »

throwawaygh wrote: post #728
kelp wrote: post #704

California SB-313 ( https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm... ) was passed in 2018 and has this requirement: "... a consumer who accepts an automatic renewal or continuous service offer online shall be allowed to terminate the automatic renewal or continuous service exclusively online, which may include a termination email formatted and provided by the business that a consumer can send to the bu…

Some car companies require you to sign you up for a "free" SiriusXM subscription with a new car purchase, which you then have to go through the effort to cancel. I told the dealership I'd never buy a car from their brand again because of this.

This really ought to be considered an illegal “tying arrangement” but since our antitrust laws are so poorly enforced and overly-emphasize price (ignoring things like quality and customer service) I doubt it’s even on anyone’s radar. The Chicago School strikes again, I suppose.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#738

Post by lostgame »

avian wrote: post #156
adrianmsmith wrote: post #6

If they do something like this, it shows such complete lack of confidence in their product. "The only reason why people would continue to use this product is... if we make it sufficiently difficult to cancel". When signing up for a product, if it uses tactics like this, I assume the product is no good, and even the producers of the product know it...

> it shows such complete lack of confidence in their product. It can also show complete and utter overconfidence. "The only reason people would want to unsubscribe is by accident. We're doing people a favor when making it as hard as possible to make that mistake."

Gave me a giggle, but yeaaaaah, no. XD

Let's be real. It's a dark pattern to make people give up on cancelling, rather than go through with it.

The more difficult something is, the more likely people are to give up on any phase of doing that thing.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#739

Post by lostgame »

adrianmsmith wrote: post #6

If they do something like this, it shows such complete lack of confidence in their product. "The only reason why people would continue to use this product is... if we make it sufficiently difficult to cancel". When signing up for a product, if it uses tactics like this, I assume the product is no good, and even the producers of the product know it...

This has nothing to do with confidence.

It is a psychological manipulation tactic to make it more difficult to cancel, in the hopes that the subscriber will give up partway through the process because they don't want to pick up the phone.

It's all about profit. The shareholders don't really give a damn about the company's confidence in its product. They care about subscriber numbers and the dollars that come from them. The quality of the product is way secondary to that.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#740

Post by euroderf »

eckesicle wrote: post #502

Meanwhile in Scandinavia: You are legally entitled to unsubscribe from any contract in any way that is most comfortable to you. [0] For example, you can: * send them a letter * send them an email * call them and tell anyone who picks up the phone * write it on a napkin and hand it to an employee All are equally legit and legally binding. Companies obviously do not want to deal with the manual overhead, so services ty…

Wellll, Finland IS Scandinavian, in social system if not in language.
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