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America has a drinking problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: America has a drinking problem

#731

Post by knicholes »

gambiting wrote: post #708
hallway_monitor wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom creates inequality. The freedom to excel comes with the freedom to do poorly at the game. Why should everyone be in the same position? They didn't put in the same effort. We do give away a lot of welfare to people who are doing poorly. It might be more effective to stop giving people money and use it instead to create programs to provide better jobs and skill training.

>>Why should everyone be in the same position? They didn't put in the same effort. For a simple reason - because we know, empirically, through decades of studies(some of which were done by the very US of A!), that it produces better results for the entire society. I've learnt long ago that it doesn't matter how I feel about benefits system personally - yeah I hate that some people get money for doing nothing. But it'…

How about free online programs like Stanford and MIT Open courseware? Or public libraries? The education is waiting there to be had even without a college tuition or degree.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#732

Post by hallway_monitor »

madcows wrote: post #707
hallway_monitor wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom creates inequality. The freedom to excel comes with the freedom to do poorly at the game. Why should everyone be in the same position? They didn't put in the same effort. We do give away a lot of welfare to people who are doing poorly. It might be more effective to stop giving people money and use it instead to create programs to provide better jobs and skill training.

> It might be more effective to stop giving people money and use it instead to create programs to provide better jobs and skill training. That's a false dichotomy. There's no actual lever for "provide better jobs and skill training." In reality, it's either more money directed at the poors, or more directed towards the rich. And that's how people vote. "Better jobs and skill training" means "give it to the rich so th…

Maybe this is true but I hope not. I'm specifically thinking of trade schools etc where people can prepare for a career without the frills and cost of university.

Honestly maybe a marketing campaign would be effective in letting people know that blue color work is honorable and needed and they can be productive and get a job that will support them and their family without having to go to Yale. I really like what Mike Rowe has to say about this issue.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#733

Post by wink »

yoz-y wrote: post #715
karlkloss wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. In most restaurants and bars, 300ml is the standard size, sometimes even 250ml. 500ml is considered a big beer. 300ml is also the standard size at festivities, concerts and sports games. In Colone, the standard size of the local beer (Kölsch) is 200ml, but 300ml is also common. In the south of Germany, especially bavaria, 500ml is the standard size in restaurants, and 1L at festivities and in bars run by brewer…

My idea originally comes from the fact that in eastern europe you have either a beer (500ml) or a "small beer" (330ml). Cans are 500ml and bottles vary. In france there is a pint (500ml) or a "half beer" (the usual size) which is 200-250ml. Cans are again 500ml but bottles are all over the place and mostly 330ml.

It depends a little, but in southern Germany (and parts of Austria) 500ml is absolutely the standard and small ones aren't even available in most restaurants (the more regional, the less likely).

I've never lived in the north, just visited very often, and there it could be different depending on the region, setting. Some also say they feel 500ml is the default, others are more in the 330ml range.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#734

Post by gambiting »

quotemstr wrote: post #712
gambiting wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Why should everyone be in the same position? They didn't put in the same effort. For a simple reason - because we know, empirically, through decades of studies(some of which were done by the very US of A!), that it produces better results for the entire society. I've learnt long ago that it doesn't matter how I feel about benefits system personally - yeah I hate that some people get money for doing nothing. But it'…

> For a simple reason - because we know, empirically, through decades of studies(some of which were done by the very US of A!), that it produces better results for the entire society Is that why America's per capita GDP is higher than that of the EU? Why the US, not the EU, is the world's center of innovation and the strongest magnet for talent? I don't think that trying to make everyone the same is good for society…

>>Is that why America's per capita GDP is higher than that of the EU?

No, but it's exactly why US is far behind EU in healthcare, education, equality, social mobility and a number of other social metrics that matter to you know - normal people on the street, not traders on wall street. GDP doesn't tell the whole story.

>>Why the US, not the EU, is the world's center of innovation and the strongest magnet for talent

Because US is home to companies that pay ridiculous salaries which make it worth moving to the US for, despite all the other downsides. You're going to get just as good education at many world class universities around the world, but if your goal is extreme salary then US education system gives you a leg up at the start - that's why. Not because there's anything unique or super special about US.

>>I don't think that trying to make everyone the same is good for society or conducive to high levels of human accomplishment.

That's absolutely not the idea, I think you misunderstood me. The point is to give everyone the same chances. In many other countries it doesn't matter if you're from a rich family or a poor one - it doesn't give you any extra leverage when applying to universities. There is no educational debt to deal with. A medical condition will not put you in any debt whatsoever.

Look at it as a gift to the society, to every child and every adult in the country - if they do nothing with it, that is their choice. But if they take these opportunities they can achieve incredible things, exactly that pinnacle of human accomplishment that you're talking about. That's freedom, not the American freedom that's tied to worship of money.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#735

Post by flyingfences »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #314
tolbish wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet one year later we learn that 18% of Americans are binge drinkers: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/americans-are-dri...

If approximately one in five people are doing it then either it needs to lose the stigma or the definition needs to change.

Would you say the same about cigarettes? Or about drunk driving?

Re: America has a drinking problem

#736

Post by gambiting »

knicholes wrote: post #731
gambiting wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Why should everyone be in the same position? They didn't put in the same effort. For a simple reason - because we know, empirically, through decades of studies(some of which were done by the very US of A!), that it produces better results for the entire society. I've learnt long ago that it doesn't matter how I feel about benefits system personally - yeah I hate that some people get money for doing nothing. But it'…

How about free online programs like Stanford and MIT Open courseware? Or public libraries? The education is waiting there to be had even without a college tuition or degree.

What about them?

I'm not denying there is free education out there. My point is in other countries you have freedom to chose and don't incur debt for your choices. Want to be an IT professional with a 4 year collage degree? No debt. Want to be a doctor with 8 years of education? No debt. Want to be a stylist? No debt. Study ancient history? No debt.

Yes, there is free education available in the US - but it's what other people have decided is "worth it", not what you want. That's where I see freedom.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#737

Post by [deleted] »

rkk3 wrote: post #466
leafmeal wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because water used to be much harder to sanitize They actually addressed this in the article, but sanitizing water is as simple as boiling it which is much less involved than the process of making beer.

> sanitizing water is as simple as boiling It may be simple but it takes a lot of energy to boil & you can't store it. They didn't have the convenience of electric kettles.

[deleted]

Re: America has a drinking problem

#738

Post by misiti3780 »

notsureaboutpg wrote: post #348
misiti3780 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, these articles are ridiculous. If you have alcoholism in your family -- dont drink. If you're overweight because drinking causes you to eat shitty food and not exercise -- stop drinking. If you have anxiety because of drinking -- stop drinking. If drinking makes you an asshole and is causing relationship problems (I know a lot of people in this category) -- stop drinking. If you like to go out on the weeks a…

>If you like to go out on the weeks and drink 8 beers with your friends, all the more power to you. People have been drinking since time immemorial, it's part of who we are as human. This just isn't true at all and it's probably offensive to large groups of people who view alcohol drinking (with pretty good reason) as a vice. Abstaining from alcohol is also a praised act since time immemorial. Trying to keep one's mi…

1) If I want to accelerate my end voluntarily, that is my prerogative.

2) You have no evidence that drinking 8 beers in one sitting once a week will cause (1). Send me lots of studies that link excessive alcohol consumption to esophageal cancer, I will send you lots of studies that show the opposite.

3) Not everyone drinks excessively and partakes in "risky and dangerous behaviors which endanger the public" (this is a ridiculous assumption you're making). I do not drink and drive. I live in a city where I can walk home. etc. 99% percent of the time I actually am at home with friends, even pre-covid.

Quote frankly... I don't even binge drink that often, but I will defend anyone's right to do so, without judgement.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#739

Post by Symbiote »

yoz-y wrote: post #715
karlkloss wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. In most restaurants and bars, 300ml is the standard size, sometimes even 250ml. 500ml is considered a big beer. 300ml is also the standard size at festivities, concerts and sports games. In Colone, the standard size of the local beer (Kölsch) is 200ml, but 300ml is also common. In the south of Germany, especially bavaria, 500ml is the standard size in restaurants, and 1L at festivities and in bars run by brewer…

My idea originally comes from the fact that in eastern europe you have either a beer (500ml) or a "small beer" (330ml). Cans are 500ml and bottles vary. In france there is a pint (500ml) or a "half beer" (the usual size) which is 200-250ml. Cans are again 500ml but bottles are all over the place and mostly 330ml.

I don't think you can generalize this across Europe.

Cans and bottles have/had "preferred sizes" (hence 330mL, 250mL, 500mL being common), but there's no European standard for how much you get in a bar or restaurant.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#740

Post by mdarens »

NateEag wrote: post #717
makeitdouble wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea about your walk of life, but people leaving low paying jobs doesn’t feel irrational or lazy, or bullshitty in general. Why shouldn’t they ?

"Walking out" of a job implies leaving the employer without warning in the middle of a workday, something many people in the US pride themselves on not doing (despite largely having the legal right to do so). It's related to strong senses of personal responsibility and pride in reliability and dependability, in my experience.

Anecdotally, I remember multiple instances of coworkers walking out in the middle of a shift when I worked as a cook in a chain restaurant due to the combination of high stress (including abuse from customers and management) and low wages.
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