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$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

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Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#731

Post by inter_netuser »

HeadsUpHigh wrote: post #619
inter_netuser wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a reference but rumours have it Joe Lubin alone controls close to 10%, which would be close to 50 billion today. With the usually apathetic voters/stakers, one such loud voice can sway a PoS network easily.

There's ~100m eth so your numbers are way off. I have a sneaky suspicion you don't really know what you are talking about.

Like i said, it's just a rumour, but from a fairly informed source.

Do you have a better estimate?

Total amount of fundraising ETH did initially was about 20 mil? 1-2 mil sounds like a feasible early VC check to get 10%, not including games you can play later to increase your stack further.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#732

Post by runeks »

zapdrive wrote: post #599
rawtxapp wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one thing for it to be live, it's another thing for it to be stress tested in actual production/real world with people's actual money. I have a vested interest in hoping it lands successfully, but being a software engineer, I know how many bugs I've had even in simple programs, I can only imagine the kinds of bugs that will be discovered in eth2 considering just how complex it is.

Don't worry. If anything goes wrong (like a hacker stealing everybody's coins), they can just rollback the transaction. That's not a new thing for ethereum, to just rollback transactions. Lol. For the uninitiated read about the dao hack and the debate that ensued. Basically, they just rolled back the transaction, just like a bank.

You're mixing up two different issues. One is a bug in the implementation of Ethereum, the other is a bug in a smart contract (that runs on Ethereum).

Undoing the former by rolling back the chain and fixing the bug is the only logical thing to do. Bitcoin devs have done the same a couple of times (e.g. [1]).

The DAO hack, however, was not caused by a bug in Ethereum. It was caused by a bug in the code of a smart contract. Ethereum executed this smart contract faithfully (there was no bug in Ethereum). Bitcoin has never done this.

[1] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#733

Post by runeks »

chrisco255 wrote: post #315
rawtxapp wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one thing for it to be live, it's another thing for it to be stress tested in actual production/real world with people's actual money. I have a vested interest in hoping it lands successfully, but being a software engineer, I know how many bugs I've had even in simple programs, I can only imagine the kinds of bugs that will be discovered in eth2 considering just how complex it is.

As someone else said, it's in production. Also, there are many, many forks of the EVM in production that run on proof of stake mechanics (Polygon, Binance Smart Chain, Skale, Qtum, xDai, etc). The main thing you have to worry about with move to ETH2 is contentious forks of the main chain, like if POW miners revolt and start a fork or a blip at the merge point that takes the chain offline for a bit. The ongoing ETH2 c…

It's not really in production until the value of Ether tokens is protected by it. When that happens it will be potentially profitable to hack it. Right now only Ethereum supporters are testing the network, not Ethereum antagonists (black/gray hats).

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#734

Post by runeks »

lisper wrote: post #474
Entwickler wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From https://vitalik.ca/general/2020/09/11/coordination.html "A large mining pool publicly showing how they have internally distributed their nodes and network dependencies doesn't do much to calm community members scared of mining centralization. And pictures like these, showing 90% of Bitcoin hashpower at the time being capable of showing up to the same conference panel, do quite a bit to scare people". If you foll…

Or, for that matter, leaving fiscal matters in the hands of a central bank with a board of governors appointed by democratically elected officials? Honestly, I don't see how the status quo in crypto actually improves on that at all (unless you are in the ransomware business, of course. Then it makes sense.)

> Or, for that matter, leaving fiscal matters in the hands of a central bank with a board of governors appointed by democratically elected officials?

Money shouldn't be democratic. I'm not OK with a majority deciding that they're entitled to my money.

More generally, private property is a good thing. I don't want majority vote to decide whether I can keep the house or car that I own.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#735

Post by user-the-name »

inter_netuser wrote: post #728
user-the-name wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If bitcoin mining is 100% renewable, that is 100% of renewable energy being destroyed instead of being put to use displacing other, more polluting energy. It doesn't matter if bitcoin mining specifically uses renewable energy. What matters is used in total by everyone. And bitcoin mining will always make things worse, no matter what kind of energy it uses.

if renewables can't power a computer network - sounds like it'll never power the world.

What.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#736

Post by user-the-name »

inter_netuser wrote: post #729
user-the-name wrote: post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The provide actual value and usefulness. Bitcoin does three transactions per second while using the energy of an entire country. The bitcoin network could be run on a single PC from 2004, but it uses, again, an entire country's worth of energy. There is nothing in the entire history of humanity that has been as obscenely inefficient and wasteful as bitcoin. Banning it is a no-brainer. The lowest hanging of low-hangin…

Ask Argentines, Zimbabweans, Cypriots, Greeks, Venezuelans, Turks, Lebanese and a few other billions around the world who are not privileged enough to have a stable monetary environment why they choose Bitcoin. It has little to do with tps. They do not have any real property rights, unable to access world's financial market, unable to save, unable to better their lives by accumulating wealth, and whatever little weal…

They don't choose bitcoin, dude. That is pure propaganda, spinning a handful of people doing it into some big movement. It's not real, it's not happening.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#737

Post by ses1984 »

inter_netuser wrote: post #730
ses1984 wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but if all the miners fork from all the non mining nodes, the chain with all the miners will be more secure. If a minority of miners side with the non mining nodes, that chain will be more vulnerable to disruption.

Would you hire a security company again, if they refused to protect you when the push comes to shove? That's all miners are. Mercenaries hired for 10 minutes at a time.

Yeah exactly.

Not sure if you realize the implication of what happens if you arm a bunch of mercenaries and then fire them and turn your backs on them.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#738

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

akouri wrote: post #412
pkulak wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And denying covid kept workers in his factory, against the law. I think there needs to be some rule in discussion that as soon as you start arguing over if someone is dumb or evil, you have to stop. It's impossible to figure out which (or what mix) it actually is.

Tesla would have been dead if he had not brought the Fremont factory back online. I give him credit for this, as I think ignoring the “rules” was one of the smartest business moves ever made in 2020.

If Tesla died, the major automakers would probably abandon EVs.

Does the industrial effort to decarbonize our economy really matter? Is it urgent? Is it essential?

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#739

Post by lisper »

runeks wrote: post #734
lisper wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, for that matter, leaving fiscal matters in the hands of a central bank with a board of governors appointed by democratically elected officials? Honestly, I don't see how the status quo in crypto actually improves on that at all (unless you are in the ransomware business, of course. Then it makes sense.)

> Or, for that matter, leaving fiscal matters in the hands of a central bank with a board of governors appointed by democratically elected officials? Money shouldn't be democratic. I'm not OK with a majority deciding that they're entitled to my money. More generally, private property is a good thing. I don't want majority vote to decide whether I can keep the house or car that I own.

How would you pay for infrastructure?

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#740

Post by runeks »

lisper wrote: post #739
runeks wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or, for that matter, leaving fiscal matters in the hands of a central bank with a board of governors appointed by democratically elected officials? Money shouldn't be democratic. I'm not OK with a majority deciding that they're entitled to my money. More generally, private property is a good thing. I don't want majority vote to decide whether I can keep the house or car that I own.

How would you pay for infrastructure?

I see nothing wrong with taxes. I just don’t think a monetary unit managed by politicians works in the long run.
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