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Stripe bans Trump campaign

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Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#731

Post by root_axis »

beltex wrote: post #641

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” — George Orwell, Animal Farm I understand the moves by Stripe, Twitter, and co. However, I would argue that the long term implications set by this precedent are much worse. When the Snowden story first broke back in 2013, many on HN argued that, hey it's all good, I have nothing to hide, and I trust our President. Three short years later, who took…

> When the Snowden story first broke back in 2013, many on HN argued that, hey it's all good, I have nothing to hide

Wow, that's some impressive revisionist history, unfortunately for you its possible for us to actually look back in time and see exactly what was said.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5849932

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#732

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

cltby wrote: post #342
Tokkemon wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antifa's not an organized thing like you keep saying it is. The Proud Boys, on the other hand...

> not an organized thing Do self-identified Antifa just spontaneously and simultaneously decide to engage in identical acts violence? Is there some remarkably prominent commie Schelling point us outsiders aren’t privy to?

It's more like how "Anonymous" was in the 2008 Scientology demonstrations. Just buy a _V-for-Vendetta_ Guy Fawkes mask and you're in. Wanna be in Antifa? Just go to a demonstration and hang-out with other people who simply look like they're in Antifa - though that doesn't give anyone permission to fight or act aggressively: there is a degree of mutual-acknowledgement amongst "members": if someone acts aggressively or fights on the offensive (as opposed to fighting defensively against other people who were aggressors[1]) then you wont' find many future allies to witness in your defence in court.

[1] Yes, I'm aware of how murky that sounds.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#733

Post by anigbrowl »

rglover wrote: post #330
brown9-2 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is those people are already radicalized, and if you give them what they want out of fear, then they’ve already won

I know some of them, and no, but they're getting there.

I know lots of them, and yes, lots of them were there years ago. It's just a first-mover problem because it's relatively easy to infiltrate radical groups and so those which plan violent action tend to informed on or penetrated. This is one reason they look to powerful authority figures for leadership, because peer-to-peer coordination is risky and uncertain.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#734

Post by manigandham »

ineedasername wrote: post #580
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah yeah those ToS, the new founding document of the United States of America. One little warning from someone living in a real fascist state (Russia). It wasn't always a fascist state, but when it began to morph into one, censorship what what they started with. Of course, it was legal, because it was all private companies, rightfully executing their liberty to not show anyone they don't like... The rich irony, of c…

So the government should instead step in and decide what companies can and can't do with their own services & infrastructure? That sounds a lot more fascist to me than a company saying, up front, "Here's the rules for using our service. Violate them and you can take your business elsewhere." And considering the ToS citations were I service of a potentially criminal act, fascism doesn't enter the picture: This is as m…

> "So the government should instead step in"

That's called regulation. We have a lot of it. Free speech isn't absolute and free markets aren't either.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#735

Post by anigbrowl »

gfodor wrote: post #704
gher-shyu3i wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is going to piss people off and some of those people are going to be real, nothing-to-lose extremists Sometimes certain things need to be dealt with by force, there's no way around it. It seems that that freedom of speech is not the cause of stability, but stability gives rise to (certain degrees) of freedom of speech. It's a slippery slope, but each country has to have a moral basis on which to decide where t…

The words you just wrote about necessary force are the same ones coming out of the mouths of those you wrote them about. It should be obvious where this road leads unless we have a leader wake us up.

It's perfectly OK to punch someone back after they've punched you first. You're not obliged to stand there and keep reasoning with them while they hit you again.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#736

Post by roenxi »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #719
roenxi wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...the fact that a small group of rioters were just a few feet away from irreversibly staining American history with the blood of the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th in the chain of command of the United states of America... Let me ask for a quick accounting here - what is the evidence for this? My understanding is 100% of the gun deaths were from guns in the hands of law enforcement officers who were perfectly capable of defend…

There were gallows, bombs, armour, zip ties and guns brought to the protest. On many of the videos you can hear the trump supporters shouting cries to kill certain members of the government, calling them traitors. Oh and they beat a police officer to death. If they had found a senior official I don’t think they would have been safe.

> There were gallows, bombs, armour, zip ties and guns brought to the protest.

How many guns, bombs and zip ties? Was it even enough protestors to be called a minority who bought bombs? The press would love a few photos of people with guns storming the capital, because those that I've seen look like very poorly behaved tourists with souvenirs and selfies. Gallows happen to be a traditional prop at protests (eg, [0]).

> If they had found a senior official I don’t think they would have been safe.

Nobody feels safe when a protest gets out of hand, but that doesn't make it a fact that the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th in the chain of command of the United states of America were about to be injured. It is entirely plausible that the mob would have screamed at them then been broken up. That is the most likely scenario.

[0] https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tommy-robinson-leads-...

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#737

Post by lliamander »

cmurf wrote: post #662
lliamander wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democrats have challenged electors for dumb reasons before. It's their right. Get a grip.

Those challenges weren't based on lies and charlatanry. Voter suppression is real and significant.

Are you prepared to offer the level of evidence to support your position that you expect of Trump supporters in proving their claims of voter fraud?

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#738

Post by lliamander »

vladTheInhaler wrote: post #681
lliamander wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that first requiring proof of voter identification? I'm sure plenty of Trump supporters would be down with this plan.

The thing about voter ID is that it isn't inherently a bad idea, as long as you make it really cheap (ideally free) and convenient to get one . If republicans were actually interested in election integrity and civic participation, they wouldn't keep accidentally forgetting that part. But they're not, so in practice it ends up acting as a tool for discrimination and disenfranchisement.

> The thing about voter ID is that it isn't inherently a bad idea, as long as you make it really cheap (ideally free) and convenient to get one.

That would be lovely.

> If republicans were actually interested in election integrity and civic participation

I have no hope in this will come to pass.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#739

Post by roenxi »

tessierashpool wrote: post #729
roenxi wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...the fact that a small group of rioters were just a few feet away from irreversibly staining American history with the blood of the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th in the chain of command of the United states of America... Let me ask for a quick accounting here - what is the evidence for this? My understanding is 100% of the gun deaths were from guns in the hands of law enforcement officers who were perfectly capable of defend…

> what is the evidence for this? > > ...this is a not a mob out for literal blood. No, this was 100% a mob out for literal blood. There is a STAGGERING amount of evidence. There's video of a large crowd of the rioters chanting "hang Mike Pence!" They erected a gallows with a noose outside the Capitol. There's video of people yelling that they came to get Pence and Pelosi. Squads of milita wore tactical armor and helm…

> No, this was 100% a mob out for literal blood. There is a STAGGERING amount of evidence.

100%? Literally all of them? Every one?

I'm not looking for a metaphorical response here. Which parts of your response are backed actual evidence and which parts are assumptions based on your instincts and filling in blanks?

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#740

Post by slg »

roenxi wrote: post #736
albertgoeswoof wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were gallows, bombs, armour, zip ties and guns brought to the protest. On many of the videos you can hear the trump supporters shouting cries to kill certain members of the government, calling them traitors. Oh and they beat a police officer to death. If they had found a senior official I don’t think they would have been safe.

> There were gallows, bombs, armour, zip ties and guns brought to the protest. How many guns, bombs and zip ties? Was it even enough protestors to be called a minority who bought bombs? The press would love a few photos of people with guns storming the capital, because those that I've seen look like very poorly behaved tourists with souvenirs and selfies. Gallows happen to be a traditional prop at protests (eg, [0]).…

>How many guns, bombs and zip ties? Was it even enough protestors to be called a minority who bought bombs?

Stop and take a second to listen to yourself. Is there an acceptable numbers of guns, bombs, and zip ties that are intended to be used on the leaders of this country?

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