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Poll: Will you take the Covid vaccine?

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Re: Poll: Will you take the Covid vaccine?

#731
post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still your civic duty to get the vaccine just like distancing and mask wearing. Just because it's not proven to be a silver bullet doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.

I never said otherwise. The reason why I'm backing h3cate and the reason why he probably spoke up is that the notion that this is a civic duty invites the idea that it's sure to protect other people, when it hasn't yet been proven to do so. Indeed, one should get it on the chance that it does, but I'm betting a lot of people will assume the vaccine suffices for others' protection.

The vaccine probably won't make any vaccinated a guaranteed superhuman which 100% breaks the transmission: even with 95% efficacy, we know that 1 in 20 will get the symptoms, for the start, and we know that the virus has to replicate in the body, at least in the upper respiratory pathways, before the immune system fights it down, also in the bodies of the vaccinated.

However, those who get the vaccine, by lowering their own chance to get sick, will contribute to the well-being of everybody: once most people are vaccinated the number of cases needing hospital has to eventually drop.

If the amount of virus produced in the body of vaccinated drops just for some percentage, the chance of transmission in some occasions will somewhat drop, even if it won't be zero. That will help everybody.

Still, there is reasonable probability that there will be a period of time when it will be hard to explain to many that they should keep behaving like potential virus carriers even after they received the vaccine (masks, distancing etc). If they do that then they will contribute to the earlier end of pandemic and directly and indirectly protect some vulnerable. By still behaving like potential carriers they will reduce already mentioned chance of transmission and contribute to health of everybody else. It's somehow non-intuitive. Also non-intuitive: some percentage of all vaccinated will with such behavior directly protect themselves too, simply because even 95% isn't 100% -- that 95% means one of 20 still gets sick, on average.

Then it won't be the first time during this pandemics that "dumbing down" the message isn't the best way to communicate.

Whoever cares about those who are most in danger, and even whoever just cares about the economy, should once again try to understand the nuances and then explain them to those who don't.

Re: Poll: Will you take the Covid vaccine?

#732
Fck no! Definitely not. Not only is the amount of misinformation from both governments and the medical industry regarding Covid widespread, but everybody seems to ignore the fact that many more people are suffering and dying from issues much much more devastating, relevant and important to combat than this so-called pandemic that I find the current state of affairs extremely mind bugling.

WHO (Accidentally) Confirms Covid Is No More Dangerous Than Flu:

https://off-guardian.org/2020/10/08/who-accidentally-confirm...

Oh, yes, I know, this is going to be down voted before anyone actually reads the information in the article!

Re: Poll: Will you take the Covid vaccine?

#733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They spent 2 decades building technology platforms that enable rapid development of vaccines for specific diseases. The specifics of the Moderna vaccine took 2 days once they had the genome of the virus. But there was an awful lot of work done before then.

Can you elaborate on what you mean it took 2 days? is this akin to a programmer creating a simulation for weeks and then taking an hour to ingest the input data into the simulation?

It’s very similar to your analogy. Basically, they have a ginormous database of how genes express themselves in various cell types, and they can run fancy queries against this database to identify which cells are most likely to be compromised by a virus of COVID’s shape.

From there, the process of developing the vaccine is training the body to fight blobs that function like COVID does.

The first shot introduces some COVID-shaped blobs, and your body develops some antibody factories to fight them, and keeps some around just in case the scary blobs come back.

The second shot introduces some more blobs, and your body reacts by producing even more antibody factories. “Trick me twice, shame on me”, in nature.

The hard work was building the database. Which was only possible because of the genome project and cell project.

Re: Poll: Will you take the Covid vaccine?

#734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could use some elaboration. Have you been in all three of those countries recently? Or "watched" meaning "saw people talking about online" or such? Or something in between?

I was in Germany in October and with the individual the day they took the second shot. France is a professional contact who mentioned it on the phone, as is China. Same thing happened with tests a few months ago in Palo Alto. Billionaires with boxes of them at their homes while public stocks ran low.

They had boxes of which vaccine? They all need to be refrigerated. Is this something you saw, heard about second hand or something you read on an open internet forum?

Re: Poll: Will you take the Covid vaccine?

#736
post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it will take days for you to notice that you have it and you will continue to spread it. Even if you do not die from it, others that caught it from you might. If you are vaccinated it might be that you do not spread it anymore. It seems that there is no data yet for the current corona vaccines, but other vaccines prevent spreading so the new ones might as well.

But those people that may get it and who are at risk should have gotten the vaccine.

Many of those highly at risk (the immunocompromised) cannot take the vaccine and rely on herd immunity. It's the same story as with every other vaccines. (Why does it have to be repeated every time?)

Very simple: If you want to go back to a normal life, you want herd immunity. You want 60+% of people vaccinated. NOT the 2-3% who are highly at risk.

Furthermore, please remember that, much like many other diseases, you can still suffer severe consequences from COVID-19, and you can still die from it, even if you are healthy.

Not wanting the vaccine because you have "low chances of dying" is like not wearing a seat belt because you have "low chances of getting into an accident". Wear your fucking seat belt.

Re: Poll: Will you take the Covid vaccine?

#737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside clinical trials nobody in Germany or France has been vaccinated as there are no approved vaccines in those countries.

> nobody in Germany or France has been vaccinated as there are no approved vaccines Which creates a force field around the warehouses in which it sits? Come on. I guess I’ll revise to I know of people with substantial resources, hundreds of millions and billions at their disposal, who have been injected with something they believe to be the Pfizer vaccine.

To be clear, you know multiple super rich people that were able to get a vaccine out of a -70C warehouse and keep it refrigerated while it was delivered to them?

Re: Poll: Will you take the Covid vaccine?

#738
Depends on what other people do. If no one takes it I’ll take it. If everyone takes it I won’t take it. We need 50-80% vaccination rate overall. So, if I take the values of this survey which is at 70% vaccination rate at the moment, I would take it to be on the safe side.

Re: Poll: Will you take the Covid vaccine?

#739

It's my civic duty to take it as soon as it's offered to me, even if there's some minuscule chance that there will be an averse side effect. That said, I'll likely be towards the end of the line given my health and occupation.

It's my civic duty not to, because people are trying to make it mandatory and we have to set a precedent that mandating it is unacceptable. I honestly think I would have said otherwise a year ago. But after seeing the mishandling of COVID-19, I no longer have faith in my countries ability to use emergency powers scientifically.

I have become more and more skeptic regarding our governments. The people who failed to protect us and the economy, now are going to "sell" us the solution. Where is their part of the accountability of what's happening?

I have invested in big-tech and bio-pharma companies, so I should be happy, but I am not. I cannot be happy when so many people are closing their small businesses and so many others die because of how the whole situation was handled.

I do not have a problem with the masks or the fact that we eventually will all have to take a vaccine.

However, the problem starts before that and doesn't end with the first vaccine we are going to get:

- Phase 1: Governments fail to protect the people during February-March by not banning travel from the infected areas.

- Phase 2: People should wear masks, socially distance, close their shops, self-isolate, etc. At the same time medical stuff should overwork and over-risk their lives.

- Phase 3: People should take the vaccine. At a low price initially, but big pharma will increase it at some point, (when they are done with the mass beta testing).

- Phase 4: People should keep taking the vaccine (at least that's the main story for the moment). They might end up having to prove that with a "vaccine passport".

I don't have problem with Phase 2. I follow the guidelines, since February, before they were guidelines of any Western government. Apparently, Eastern countries have faced similar outbreaks and there was plenty of information on what people there do.

I don't have a problem with Phase 3, either. I want to do as much to protect myself and others.

However, the current narrative is that people who do follow Phase 3 and then 4 (assuming they can take the vaccine but chose not to) are the "bad" people who do not care about the others. And they should be marginalized and even ostracized from the society.

>>> Where is the accountability for the governments?

They, before everyone else, put peoples' health at risk.

But I forgot. They "saved" the economy (only of some big tech companies and, eventually, the big pharma).

Re: Poll: Will you take the Covid vaccine?

#740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reasons I’ve heard: - The rushed nature of the vaccines. “Fastest approved vaccine” is not re-assuring if you don’t understand what trade was made for that accelerated timeline. - “I’ll just stay isolated until it dies off” - “I don’t trust western medicine” - “I don’t trust the FDA or big pharma” - “I don’t care if I get covid . People at risk can take the vaccine” Don’t forget how many people don’t even take the fl…

Plus: - "These are the first mRNA vaccines ever released. We don't yet know the long term effects."

To biologists in this field, I suspect this statement reads something like “this is the first Python client for our Node gRPC service, we have no idea if the language interop will work”.

It ignores all of the hard work over literal decades that has gone into the work of developing mRNA-based medicine (gRPC and protobufs), which was developed literally for situations like Covid-19 (polyglot services communicating over network interfaces).

Yes, mRNA is basically magic from a distance. So is all of modern technology. But it’s built on and hardened by iterative experiments, not conjured from thin air.

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