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Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

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Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#731

Post by Cederfjard »

ibeckermayer wrote: post #721
felipemnoa wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>but now they've gone and infused it with a bunch of power it didn't have prior. I don't know. I think the people that are going to believe these kinds of stories at face value would have found this story on their own regardless. It is not like the NY Post is some obscure paper. It may make this story stronger with those that are already inclined to believe this stuff. I think by this time people have already made t…

What about the story should I not be taking at face value? I just read the email, seems pretty clearcut that the Burisma bigshot asked Hunter to "use your influence" to fight off the "general prosecutor". Ultimately Biden did get the prosecutor general fired by withholding foreign aid, and bragged about it on camera. IIRC Trump was impeached for supposedly threatening to withhold foreign aid from Ukraine unless they…

Well first off, is the email real? Even if it is real, do we know if Hunter Biden actually used "his influence"? What indications are there that Hunter Biden's supposed actions were critical to Shokin's firing anyway?

Several governments and other organizations were concerned because Shokin wasn't investigating Burisma properly, having laid the investigation he inherited from his predecessor dormant. The demand to fire him wasn't something that Joe Biden came up with himself out of the blue, and at the end of the day it was most likely to Burisma's detriment.

It's not an impeachable offense to threaten to withhold foreign aid for valid reasons that further the interests of the United States. It was (and should be) an impeachable offense to illegally withhold aid that was already meant to have been delivered, and to do so for personal gain.

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#732

Post by chmod600 »

Hamuko wrote: post #23
throwawa3495 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's honestly irrelevant about the credibility of the emails and other data at this point, its the blanket censorship of this article that's now the real story.

Is it? Because the factuality of the story seems like a pretty big deal here. If it's completely bogus, how is it different from any of those Russian trollfarm posts that the US government was worried about?

Both are important. Censoring something important without knowing whether it's true or not is pretty worrisome. If it does turn out to be true then it's much worse. If it turns out to be false, the censor got lucky or knows something we don't.

One thing I'm wondering is how can they censor it without getting either some evidence that it's fake or at least a clear denial? (Biden's campaign released a statement refuting it, but that's not the same as Biden himself publicly denying the claims.)

Thin evidence (someone found some damaging-looking emails) can be dismissed with thin counter-evidence (a denial). But it can't be dismissed with nothing.

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#733

Post by jacobolus »

ibeckermayer wrote: post #721
felipemnoa wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>but now they've gone and infused it with a bunch of power it didn't have prior. I don't know. I think the people that are going to believe these kinds of stories at face value would have found this story on their own regardless. It is not like the NY Post is some obscure paper. It may make this story stronger with those that are already inclined to believe this stuff. I think by this time people have already made t…

What about the story should I not be taking at face value? I just read the email, seems pretty clearcut that the Burisma bigshot asked Hunter to "use your influence" to fight off the "general prosecutor". Ultimately Biden did get the prosecutor general fired by withholding foreign aid, and bragged about it on camera. IIRC Trump was impeached for supposedly threatening to withhold foreign aid from Ukraine unless they…

The part where a sloppily fabricated email was put onto a bogus laptop (probably by foreign intelligence agents), and then “coincidentally” made its way right back to Rudy Giuliani (who was at the time neck deep in the effort to extort a foreign leader into announcing a fake investigation into the same non-scandal, for which the President has already been impeached). Giuliani passed the emails via Steve Bannon (Trump’s former campaign manager and “Chief Strategist”, since indicted for mail fraud and money laundering) to a hack “journalist” (former Hannity producer) at the NY Post who did zero fact checking, because no credible journalist or news organization would ever touch such a flimsy story. Someone in the chain made a PDF of these fake emails a year ago but then sat on it, before releasing it in the last 3 weeks before an election, without releasing enough forensic evidence for any third party to do even the most basic check.

The computer repair guy’s story is just comically implausible. https://www.thedailybeast.com/man-who-reportedly-gave-hunter...

You want a real corruption scandal? How about the $10 million bribe paid to the Trump campaign by a state-owned Egyptian bank right before the 2016 election (and immediately after candidate Trump met privately with President Sisi). Which the DOJ never finished investigating because Trump-appointed officials instructed them not to. https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/14/politics/trump-campaign-donat...

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#734

Post by bduerst »

Karunamon wrote: post #291

This was a shockingly dumb move. Whether or not you think these actions were politically motivated or made in good faith, it just poured liquid oxygen on the "reform section 230" fire you're seeing from both sides of the aisle - one using the censorship reason, the other using the disinformation reason. There's no way you don't block a newspaper, and the press secretary, and prevent anyone from even private messaging…

Eh, I don't think it's going to have the impact you think it will.

The major criticism for S230 is that social media companies are rampant with fake news, and not doing enough to combat misinformation. If anything, it gives FB and Twitter a defense against an accusation of spreading political misinformation.

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#735

Post by nullc »

partiallypro wrote: post #107
troughway wrote: post #67

Much like the HN thread that applauded FB getting rid of some thousands of accounts related to “right wingers”, QAnon, et cetera, I equally applaud this admirable move. I hope that FB, Twitter, Google, Cloudflare and others continue to block and close accounts to prevent the intervention of democracy as much as possible. A similar case to this may have been the reason why Hillary Clinton lost the presidential electio…

Right, but what if the story is 100% legit, and the people interfering in democracy are actually FB, Twitter, Google and Cloudflare? All of which are heavy lobbyists, and have their own interests at heart. Shouldn't they just be elevating journalists that are casting doubts on it, or going in to try to confirm or refute the story...instead of just outright blocking something that isn't verifiably false? This isn't re…

I've wondered if it might be strategic, if there is any truth to it, to withhold proof and get the opposition busy denying it entirely... then present the proof and shoot their credibility completely and cause a bigger backlash.

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#736

Post by zpeti »

jacobolus wrote: post #733
ibeckermayer wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the story should I not be taking at face value? I just read the email, seems pretty clearcut that the Burisma bigshot asked Hunter to "use your influence" to fight off the "general prosecutor". Ultimately Biden did get the prosecutor general fired by withholding foreign aid, and bragged about it on camera. IIRC Trump was impeached for supposedly threatening to withhold foreign aid from Ukraine unless they…

The part where a sloppily fabricated email was put onto a bogus laptop (probably by foreign intelligence agents), and then “coincidentally” made its way right back to Rudy Giuliani (who was at the time neck deep in the effort to extort a foreign leader into announcing a fake investigation into the same non-scandal, for which the President has already been impeached). Giuliani passed the emails via Steve Bannon (Trump…

You do realise the Biden campaign has made a statement not denying the legitimacy of the email?

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#737

Post by MuffinFlavored »

bduerst wrote: post #734
Karunamon wrote: post #291

This was a shockingly dumb move. Whether or not you think these actions were politically motivated or made in good faith, it just poured liquid oxygen on the "reform section 230" fire you're seeing from both sides of the aisle - one using the censorship reason, the other using the disinformation reason. There's no way you don't block a newspaper, and the press secretary, and prevent anyone from even private messaging…

Eh, I don't think it's going to have the impact you think it will. The major criticism for S230 is that social media companies are rampant with fake news, and not doing enough to combat misinformation. If anything, it gives FB and Twitter a defense against an accusation of spreading political misinformation.

Was the NY Post article actually filled with disinformation?

If the roles were reversed and a similar story came out about Trump and his son, would Twitter and Facebook have taken it down as part of a misinformation campaign?

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#738

Post by rendall »

moneybadger wrote: post #574
pensatoio wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see ridiculous (even virulent) hot takes blasted out by overwhelmingly left-leaning major media orgs with near zero consequences on twitter and facebook. Half the time, this stuff proves to be incomplete - borderline maliciously so - or even factually incorrect, within days. I'm still hearing daily from people who think Breonna Taylor was shot in her sleep. Regardless of how you lean politically, this behavior shou…

Except the Washington Post isn't releasing possibly faked or hacked emails about Breonna Taylor being shot in her sleep three weeks before an election in a blatant attempt to manufacture an October Surprise. Don't try and create false equivalency here.

Respectfully, I beg to differ

The Washington Post released unsubstantiated reports from anonymous sources that the DNC emails were hacked by Russia and released through Wikileaks. This is an extraordinary claim, and the evidence should be likewise extraordinary

4 years later, however, these remain allegations only, the lack of which drives the idea of a deep state conspiracy in conservative circles

If you're inclined to believe the Russia hacking allegations, this story will seem like a completely different, false equivalence, because one is true (the hacking allegations) and the other is false (the Hunter Biden allegation). But consider: there is as much hard evidence for one as the other, and both are damaging, destabilizing allegations

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#739

Post by aksss »

Cederfjard wrote: post #731
ibeckermayer wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the story should I not be taking at face value? I just read the email, seems pretty clearcut that the Burisma bigshot asked Hunter to "use your influence" to fight off the "general prosecutor". Ultimately Biden did get the prosecutor general fired by withholding foreign aid, and bragged about it on camera. IIRC Trump was impeached for supposedly threatening to withhold foreign aid from Ukraine unless they…

Well first off, is the email real? Even if it is real, do we know if Hunter Biden actually used "his influence"? What indications are there that Hunter Biden's supposed actions were critical to Shokin's firing anyway? Several governments and other organizations were concerned because Shokin wasn't investigating Burisma properly, having laid the investigation he inherited from his predecessor dormant. The demand to fi…

Well let’s keep in mind Biden has denied any such interaction with Burisma, has denied any wrongdoing in his son’s appointment, has denied any implication of graft. Despite information that at least warrants some hard questioning. Now this comes out and Biden’s team has not denied its legitimacy. And this from a candidate who’s last bid for President tanked because of his own admitted lying and plagiarizing. Judge it how you like but I don’t think you can extend Biden a benefit of the doubt — quite the opposite should be the default position, probably for any politician.

Re: Facebook, Twitter block the NY Post from posting

#740

Post by [deleted] »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #737
bduerst wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I don't think it's going to have the impact you think it will. The major criticism for S230 is that social media companies are rampant with fake news, and not doing enough to combat misinformation. If anything, it gives FB and Twitter a defense against an accusation of spreading political misinformation.

Was the NY Post article actually filled with disinformation? If the roles were reversed and a similar story came out about Trump and his son, would Twitter and Facebook have taken it down as part of a misinformation campaign?

[deleted]
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