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Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#731

Post by Twisell »

sabujp wrote: post #664
lstroud wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can’t Epic build their own phone? Are their barriers to entry that Apple has put in place to prevent them from building and selling a phone?

surely you jest. Has samsung been able to get a flagship phone sold without android?

Well the point being that the smartphone market is suffering from poor alternative.

If so many people here seems to believe that neither iOS, nor Android, provide both flexibility and privacy they seek market opportunity might be ripe for new competitors.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#732

Post by read_if_gay_ »

JiNCMG wrote: post #714
wsc981 wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt Apple could or would really want to ban the Unreal engine, right? I guess at some point Epic could create a new Apple account again (perhaps after some court order by a judge) and just continue testing their engine on devices. They don't need to release games themselves on the AppStore, as long as 3rd party devs can release software based on the Unreal engine on the AppStore. I think what Epic wants to see go…

App Store takes the same 30% as Xbox, Sony, Switch, Target, Walmart, Walgreen, etc... Purchase a console game at Walmart? Walmart takes their cut after the console creator took their cut. In fact if you think your game is gonna sell like crazy that you press (DVD/BluRay) 1 million copies, you are in debt to the Console manufacturer for their 30%.

Retailers don't get 30%. Not even close. Try 0.5% or something like that. As for MS, their cut on the MS app store is 5%. 30% is just really really steep, and I think consumers would win if that got reduced.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#733

Post by [deleted] »

neximo64 wrote: post #713

So whats going on here. Apple wasn't happy with one of the apps from Epic games (Fortnite), so pulled the other apps that were compliant? Is that what happened. That leaves quite a bad taste in my mouth. Apple removed apps that were following the rules to try and enforce their rules on one that wasn't.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#734

Post by anaganisk »

wins32767 wrote: post #446

One unexamined side effect of this is that Epic is no longer able to security patch Fortnite. A sufficiently bad exploit would have really interesting tradeoffs for both parties. If Apple is standing on security being the core of their offering, they'd undercut it by not letting Epic patch it. But if Apple didn't let them patch it would Epic be forced to come to terms?

Considering its apple, Im sure Apple has some hidden feature that can let them disable or uninstall an app from user's devices.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#735

Post by uberduper »

RonanTheGrey wrote: post #650
nuker wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is like in Amazon sold a fridge and said you can only shop at Whole Foods. So why would anyone buy such fridge? And if they do, there clearly are other benefits, which you omitted.

My wife is absolutely obsessed with getting the latest iPhone when her current device (Android) either breaks or otherwise stops being useful. Her reason? "It's the best phone". Why? "Because it's super expensive". Why? "I don't know everyone says it's the best phone." It would surprise me if any conversation about why to buy an iPhone ever went deeper than that, 99.99999% of the time. The HN crowd is absolutely an e…

Does your wife approve of you depicting her this way online?

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#736

Post by read_if_gay_ »

risyachka wrote: post #647
akira2501 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No matter what opinion one holds on mobile store rules, they are their rules and so far you have the choice of following them (which is also somewhat iffy) or not being on the store. A valid opinion is that those rules are illegal under current federal statue. Another one is that although they currently aren't, they should be. > Separate the issues and angles and see it for what it is: just a bunch of legal departm…

> A valid opinion is that those rules are illegal under current federal statue. Another one is that although they currently aren't, they should be. If you think about it it's not really valid. Retailers take a big cut of the price to sell your product and its legal. The rules were defined many years ago, and its a free world - don't like it - don't buy it. Why would it be illegal?

No. Most retailers get a few percent at best.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/071615/what-profit-...

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#737

Post by mrtksn »

orangecat wrote: post #426
mrtksn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish every damn micro transaction app gets removed one day. What’s the alternative? I’m in love with the micro transactions model because the alternative is experience destroyed by ads or high upfront fees. On the games I play I rarely buy anything, don’t see ads but their business is healthy and the games are fantastic and regularly updated with new content. I casually play Asphalt 9, SimCity BuildIt and PUBG, p…

the alternative is experience destroyed by ads or high upfront fees My experience is exactly the opposite. IAPs encourage developers to make the default experience sufficiently broken (e.g. requiring absurd amounts of grinding) so that you'll pay to fix it.

I know the argument but it’s not my experience with these games. Especially with PUBG, the purchases are only cosmetic if you don’t count the private playing mode that I’m not into anyway.

Because these games are multiplayer, you peer with people that are also not high spenders(mostly).

In Asphalt 9, for example It’s not realistic fir me to unlock some cars by free playing but I would not say that the experience is broken, Years later I still enjoy a few races every day because they introduce new items and gaming modes almost monthly.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#738

Post by kbenson »

dwaite wrote: post #461
kbenson wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead you have sideload... the Epic Games Store! There are many levels to compete with Apple on, since they have decided to entrench themselves on every level. Epic is not competing with Apple on an Apple basis, where Apple doesn't want to allow a specific type of app (e.g. a browser with a different engine), they are competing with the App Store (which is how Apple ensures their App level advantage, and that you…

> which is how Apple ensures their App level advantage, and that you can't ship your own browser engine. To be clear, you can't ship your own JIT, including a Javascript runtime, because Apple does not give TestFlight or App Store distributed apps the ability to mark memory pages executable. iOS supports two different app platforms, native apps via the App Store and HTML/Javascript/WebAssembly via Safari. One reason…

A JavaScript runtime doesn't require a JIT to work, it just makes it a lot faster. That alone wouldn't keep alternative browsers from being in the store, there are plenty of reasons to want a different browser even if JavaScript runs slower on it.

Last I heard you couldn't ship any interpreted language on iOS, and this was the big reason given why you can't have your own browser (and many other types of apps that could benefit from some scripting interface).

But that's just one example anyway, and somewhat besides the point. I have no problem with Apple running their App Store and restricting what apps are allowed on it. I do have a problem with the App Store being the only trusted source for installing software and managing updates. It's one more link in the chain that makes any real competition on in the iPhone ecosystem beholden entirely to Apple's wishes.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#739

Post by zhyder »

1. Let's think about what's in the users best interest wrt app capabilities. Wouldn't it be better for users to not be hit by a 30% surcharge when signing up for Spotify thru the iOS app? Wouldn't it be better for users patronizing small businesses if all of the revenue for events booked through that Facebook app went to the small businesses?

2. Let's figure out if it's possible for Apple to still offer a secure experience for apps installed via sideloading (which is one option; the other option is allowing other payment methods in the App Store for in-app purchases). It should be thanks to their sandbox. They're welcome to tighten the sandbox further too over time, e.g. how they relatively recently restricted background location access, since that was rightly considered more sensitive than foreground access.

Apple can easily offer more user benefits without fundamentally making their business model unsustainable. Note that the situation here is fundamentally different from brick-and-mortar stores, which have very limited shelf space; not to mention no single brick-and-mortar store controls so much of someone's life (we're very reliant on our smartphones).

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#740

Post by cavanasm »

pier25 wrote: post #707
cavanasm wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In court, Apple claimed that iOS payments are 12% of total Fortnite revenue, just for reference. It's not a death blow, but it's definitely impactful.

How can Apple know the total Fortnite revenue? Is this public knowledge?

As far as I'm aware, it isn't, but it could have been part of the filings for the temporary restraining order. The number is from this coverage of the hearing by a tech/legal reporter. https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/1298031302357082112?s=...
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