Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#731

Post by weixiyen » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 2:27 AM UTC

wdr1 wrote: post #150

0x402DF854 wrote: post #23

From a preliminary statement of Epic's motion: > Just over two weeks ago, Apple’s CEO Tim Cook was asked during a Congressional hearing whether Apple has “ever retaliated against or disadvantaged a developer who went public about their frustrations with the App Store”. Mr. Cook testified, “We do not retaliate or bully people. It’s strongly against our company culture.”

Epic should have done this a week or two before the hearing.

Missed opportunity for sure, the video was probably taking longer than expected.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#732

Post by Waterfall » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 2:29 AM UTC

dkersten wrote: post #658

StevePerkins wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has expressed skepticism that "willing participation" in pedophilia harms children. And given a couple of bizarre quotes on bestiality (essentially, "if the animal initiates it then what's the problem?"). More recently, he was pushed out of MIT and the FSF last year for questioning whether one of Jeffrey Epstein's victims was truly a victim or not. He prefers Emacs over Vim. There are probably other examples, but…

> questioning whether one of Jeffrey Epstein's victims was truly a victim or not. I’ve never really been much of an RMS fan beyond admiration for what he has done for free software, but this is not what he said, at least according to his words as quoted in the post that initiated his cancellation[1]. I’ve pasted it from that post below [2]. The author of that post quoted this and then somehow inferred this [3]. How s…

This is exactly what my issue is with many of his detractors. He's brave enough to state his opinions good and bad, and most people don't think beyond the first step of why or the context and continue the myth of it being a fact. It is depressing to see how this is not common news even here and people have every reason to dislike him for other reasons but they just wanted a reason to hate him.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#733

Post by qserasera » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 2:35 AM UTC

Too little too late. Now there are competing emotive arguments that bury the lede.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#734

Post by eanzenberg » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 2:35 AM UTC

nyolfen wrote: post #643

krapp wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, that disavowal came after his former behavior and views - which went not only accepted but defended by his peers and followers for years (including on HN following his "cancellation") finally became too much for people around him to bear. No other public figure with a history like his would be given even a shadow of a benefit of the doubt over nothing but a brief blog entry. If he were a politician or a c…

> If he were a politician or a celebrity HN would want to see him hanged with the rest of the degenerate elites. you may be surprised at some of the names here: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/French_petition_against_age_of_c...

Its not surprising that elites are for sex with children. We see that in 2020, too.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#735

Post by dwild » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 2:49 AM UTC

nxc18 wrote: post #668

dwild wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't ever want to be in the position that PC users are stuck in, where they can be forced to install certain stores just to get access to the games they want to play. You realize that the alternative... is no game, right? That's what Epic is showing to consumers... I'm pretty sure you answered yes here, now you do realize that you aren't forced to install certain stores, not installing them would only remove you…

Yeah or Epic could not be pricks and just put the game on the stores like every other app developer. That’s the mysterious third option you’re missing and that we lived with for literally years up until this point. Apple has the capacity to protect me from stores like origin, steam, epic, and everyone else who wants to install crap on my device. Microsoft doesn’t, so I’m forced to install that shit to get access to g…

> Yeah or Epic could not be pricks and just put the game on the stores like every other app developer

So contesting an absurd fee is being pricks now? Wow...

Like every other app developer? Many can't accept payment in the app as this fee would increase the cost too much. Many can't have an app at all because Apple politics over moderation are unfair and absurd (see Floatplane from Linus Tech Tips, they are struggling to get their app approved with comments as they "couldn't moderate it well enough", while Twitch has no issue getting approval).

Epic has the current luxury to do not depends on Apple and be quite comfortable financially to contest what they are doing. Many app developpers would do the same if they had the same luxury, sadly they can't afford the move Epic did.

> That’s the mysterious third option you’re missing and that we lived with for literally years up until this point.

China population has lived with CCP for years too! Why not inspire our laws on theirs?!

It's not because something keep happening that it's a good thing, you know? It's keep happening because of their position of power, for once there is someone that has the means to contest it.

> Apple has the capacity to protect me from stores like origin, steam, epic, and everyone else who wants to install crap on my device.

First, you can build an OS that won't let crap happens. You don't need any curation to not allow something to happens. I will decide whether an app can get my GPS, not Apple, not you, not the developper of an app, just me.

Second, if any app follow Apple standard, why wouldn't they still be on the official app store? This is what most people will use, thus not being there would be incredibly absurd. Fees could be a reasons, but that would just prove that the fee is quite unreasonable.

> they just had to install a forked OS and a custom store are proving the point.

Proving what point? That they have control over what happens on their own device? Are you forgeting that we are arguing about not being able to get control over our own device here?

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#736

Post by marcan_42 » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 2:53 AM UTC

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #707

marcan_42 wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Richard Stallman has been way off the rails and a detriment to his own cause for years. I'm not talking about the pedophilia comments, the sexual harassment of women in tech, or the toe jam. All those are well documented and don't need restating. No, if you look at the FSF's recent policies regarding software freedom, they are also bass-ackwards. The FSF had a "respects your freedom" certification which is designed t…

I think you have formed a rather negative opinion of rms without having ever met him or spoken with him. This is common in politics, so I don't blame you, but I don't think you're serving yourself or anyone else well.

I fail to see how meeting someone in person is a requirement to form an opinion on them based on their public actions.

Claiming that it is, though, sure sounds like a common dismissive tactic in politics, and especially when defending people who otherwise commit undesirable, even detestable public actions ("but he's a great guy, he'd never hurt anyone" etc).

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#737

Post by the_jeremy » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 2:53 AM UTC

Waterfall wrote: post #720

the_jeremy wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A direct quote of RMS from his website[0]: The nominee is quoted as saying that if the choice of a sexual partner were protected by the Constitution, "prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality, possession of child pornography, and even incest and pedophilia" also would be. He is probably mistaken, legally--but that is unfortunate. All of these acts should be legal as long as no one is coerced. They are illegal…

Why? It's one of the only things that you can get in trouble for without even knowing it was there. You could have taken them yourself or your children, did, it's seen in your house and they assume it's yours, now you can have a big lawsuit. With the quality of cameras and common usage of them I see a huge problem looming. It's used to plant investigations on innocent people. It's turned innocent people into jobless…

Sure. I don't think you should be arrested or put on the sex offenders list for taking / possessing a picture of yourself as a minor. I think it's clear from context that this is not what RMS was referring to, and I don't think your strawman argument is helpful.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#738

Post by tc313 » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 2:53 AM UTC

ChrisLomont wrote: post #700

laser wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a lawyer, but presumably because there's US antitrust law, under which the courts may find Apple's contractual impositions to be illegal. They may also find they are legal, but if the court has any doubt they should grant Epic's request to stop retaliation.

I doubt this is antitrust. There's a zillion other places to sell a game (as Epic has shown). If you want to claim the entire market in question to be Apple products, I doubt that will get very far. Everything is a monopoly when you make your market hyper specific.

Well that’s Epic’s argument, so it’s the question that the courts will resolve in this case.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#739

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 2:54 AM UTC

StevePerkins wrote: post #567

Waterfall wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you find him wrong about?

He has expressed skepticism that "willing participation" in pedophilia harms children. And given a couple of bizarre quotes on bestiality (essentially, "if the animal initiates it then what's the problem?"). More recently, he was pushed out of MIT and the FSF last year for questioning whether one of Jeffrey Epstein's victims was truly a victim or not. He prefers Emacs over Vim. There are probably other examples, but…

[deleted]

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#740

Post by woofie11 » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 2:59 AM UTC

ChrisLomont wrote: post #702

woofie11 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antitrust doesn't require a monopoly.

>Antitrust doesn't require a monopoly. Yes, it does. https://www.justice.gov/atr/monopoly-power-and-market-power-...

Did you read the link you just posted? Seriously. It clearly states what I said, and contradicts what you said. As per YOUR LINK, you don't need a monopoly for antitrust; just "the ability to raise prices above those that would be charged in a competitive market."

Apple unambiguously has this with their app store.