US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days • Hacker News Board

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#731

Post by bradleybuda » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 2:29 PM UTC

cwhiz wrote: post #685

tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

China doesn’t allow many western companies to operate in China. Why should the US allow Chinese companies to operate in the US?? This is an outrage that we should not allow. They steal our intellectual property, create state funded companies that are given monopoly access to their markets, and then unleash their stolen products on the world market. And if American or other western companies try to compete on the grou…

Because allowing Chinese companies to operate in the US is good for American consumers. This isn’t a zero-sum game.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#732

Post by svara » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 2:29 PM UTC

cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

It's one thing to call for a system of fair regulations that provide a level playing field; it's another thing altogether to essentially expropriate a company through executive action because it was doing too well.

Your comment makes sense and I mostly agree with it, but not on this submission.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#733

Post by hnxx » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

I know much of western people agree with Trump's decision to ban ByteDance and Wechat, and it's fair to me when it's based on reciprocal. But actually, ByteDance and Wechat(Tencent Holding) was and is growing more like a US company then a company with China Communism background. A lot of employee of ByteDance/Wechat are engineers like the engineers in hackernews. Even the CEO of bytedance, Zhangyiming, is now cursed in China for earlier friendly voice to US and western world. I mean, why hurt the companies and engineers are or was friendly to US. The recently ban action is turning friend to enemy, why not put the punishment to other unfriendly subject or entity.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#734

Post by _lsq » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

ethbro wrote: post #584

_lsq wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. The Chinese government sets their (extremely authoritarian) rules on censorship for companies to legally operate in China but the rules apply to everyone equally. Chinese companies of course have to comply, but foreign companies have the choice to comply or not. Google chose to comply initially but decided to pull out later on. Microsoft/Apple choose to comply and are still operating in significant ways…

> The Chinese government sets their (extremely authoritarian) rules on censorship for companies to legally operate in China but the rules apply to everyone equally. Censorship requirements are the least restrictive Chinese law. Look at industries where foreign companies are outright restricted (must form non controlling joint venture with local partner) or prohibited from operating in: http://english.mofcom.gov.cn/ar…

I'm definitely not saying that the Chinese government is in anyway a good example worthy of our compliments. That discussion however is off topic here.

If the US were prepared to backtrack on its reputation as the leader of free market then the US could instate equivalent laws in the US: "telecom equipment must be domestically manufactured by local businesses or by companies jointly owned by American citizens" would be a generically enforceable law, that's equivalent to what you cited. Huawai would have no option other than to comply and exit the US market or find local partners.

The problem is that's not what the US is proposing to do; rather the US is making unsubstantiated claims that ALL Chinese companies are born a crime and should not operate in the US in any meaningful way.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#735

Post by dontcarethrow2 » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 2:31 PM UTC

cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

Quite frankly, the entire world can learn from China on how to protect its own economy from bullies. I'd hate to live in a world where the Microsofts buys all the Skypes and ruins all sorts of innovations you all claim comes from this freedom. You shareholders only have $ in your eyes, this means shit to the young people looking towards their future. I don't mind you all protecting your interests, you're human.. but it definitely adds too much taint to your 'genuine' perspectives.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#736

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 2:31 PM UTC

cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

[deleted]

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#737

Post by jeswin » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 2:31 PM UTC

cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

> The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them.

You could use "democratic nations" instead of western world. I agree with you otherwise.

What will a dictatorship do if it had hundreds of billions in trade surplus every year? Well, they are eventually going to spend it on weapons.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#738

Post by cd_2001 » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 2:34 PM UTC

cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

Please excuse me for my semi-rant. I don't mean to be too critical, but I think framing every news about China in this "the West vs China" angle is really counterproductive.

First of all, "the West" is a very vague concept, quite unlike talking about China. Does it include all of Europe? Does it include Moscow then? Does it include parts of Latinamerica? Maybe you mean NATO (but then you should include Turkey too). Or maybe you only mean Five Eyes (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, United States). This isn't just nitpicking: your point might make sense if you mean Five Eyes, but it might not make sense at all if you include, say, Greece , Turkey and Israel.

Second, talking only about "the West" vs China marginalizes the rest of the world. Most of the people in this world live in neither the West nor in China and yet they never seem to matter according to most discussions I see here in Hacker News (I, for one, identify with neither).

This is specially bad when people implicitly say things like "the West values freedom and democracy, whereas China...". If democracy and human rights were something unique for "the West", then you shouldn't be surprised that China doesn't like those concepts (in fact, they oppose liberal value precisely because of this: "this only works in 西方, not here in China").

西方 = the West

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#739

Post by tfcata » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 2:34 PM UTC

cwhiz wrote: post #704

tfcata wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has not forcefully seized foreign company's promising assets so good so it's impossible to consider for sale, by both a measly 'offer' of maybe 1/10, or less, of the market value and threatening from the leader, has it?

They haven’t directly done that, but what they have done is force American companies to form joint ventures with a Chinese company in order to operate in China. This requires the American company to hand over intellectual property and trade secrets. And then, amazingly, some state funded competitor comes along doing the same thing the American company wants to do. Would a Chinese company have this same problem enteri…

You need evidence to support your claim that they are 'required' to hand over intellectual property. Joint ventures are formed based on terms and contracts, signing such contracts is a very silly move.

Also, the use of 'hand over' suggests they are all the way not willing to disclose the intellectual property but were forced to, but isn't there a patent system in China? Why would these companies refuse to disclose some intellectual property and make use the legal system, just as how they did it back home?

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#740

Post by cwhiz » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 2:35 PM UTC

svara wrote: post #732

cwhiz wrote: post #682

The entire western world should treat China exactly the same way China treats them. Western companies have a difficult time operating in China, but Chinese companies have zero problems operating in western countries. It’s completely unfair and if we follow this to conclusion, the future will be one of only Chinese international corporations. Would WeChat or TikTok even exist if the Chinese market were open to existin…

It's one thing to call for a system of fair regulations that provide a level playing field; it's another thing altogether to essentially expropriate a company through executive action because it was doing too well. Your comment makes sense and I mostly agree with it, but not on this submission.

I understand the sentiment but there has to be a first company. Someone has to be the first casualty in forcing China to either open their markets or exit our markets.

I do wish this was part of a broader policy instead of a one-off.