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Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#731

Post by isthispermanent »

oramit wrote: post #703
isthispermanent wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. This is largely the problem. Unfortunately, I don't think it would have mattered whether it was a left or right president. The side not in office would have done the opposite. Everything is a political proxy war right now.

I'm not so certain. There is extreme political polarization, yes, but I don't think we can honestly look at the situation at hand and not see the giant Trump shaped elephant in the room. He hasn't ever governed as a "unity" president. That has worked for him when things were generally humming along but it fails catastrophically in times of crisis. Lots of people (myself included) simply don't believe he can put aside…

What I'm saying is that if Sec. Clinton were in office the red states would be doing exactly what they're doing now. It wouldn't have made a lick of difference.

I should have been more explicit on that.

> Contrast this with Andrew Cuomo of New York...

Exactly. I think this is part of the problem on the left. The desire to do something, anything, when sometimes doing nothing, or less, is the right thing. And then if it doesn't work out saying "yeah but we did something!".

Frankly, I think the outcome in NY was inevitable regardless of policy. So I don't blame Cuomo but I also don't think he's a hero. He just did his job and showed up. The way the data has shaped up against other jurisdictions around the country/globe I think they would have gotten about the same outcome regardless of the policy.

> It was a choice by Trump, which then filtered down into Trump leaning local politicians, to turn it into a proxy war

That's fair. He did "start it". He's a real problem for sure. Anything he touches or recommend almost can't be touched by the left for fear of keeping him in office.

But same for the right. There's no way the red states would have saddled up with Clinton.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#732

Post by eaandkw »

cortesoft wrote: post #546
eaandkw wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point I am even sure that being more efficient is better. From the context of economic opportunity the only ones that benefit are the rich and well connected. Now, I'm not one to bash "rich people" but think about it. If I was looking for a good deal for some land I could probably find one if I looked hard enough. Today it is pretty difficult to find land that isn't insanly expensive or too far away. Everythi…

> At this point I am even sure that being more efficient is better. From the context of economic opportunity the only ones that benefit are the rich and well connected. I think you are really underselling how awful life has been in the past. Just look at things like child mortality rates.... historically, nearly HALF of all people died during childhood. That is insane. The global rate is now about 1/10 of that. Simil…

Don't get me wrong about the efficiency gains. To a point I think it is great. But when everything is maximally efficient there is nothing to gain. Sure we could disrupt yet another industry but for every winner there is a loser.

Starvation and malnourishment are drastically lower due to industrial farming. But that was to the detrement of destroyed ecosystems, pollution, and greater government regulations. Heck, I believe that I was Michigan that was trying to prevent people from purchasing seeds to plant their own gardens.

Don't worry. I'm not actually all doom and gloom. I just don't think we are on the right track and we are heading of course. And this has been going on for a lot longer than 2016.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#733

Post by mortehu »

shreyansj wrote: post #571
marcell wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we didn't follow through with the lockdown nationally to actually stomp the virus This statement implies that there's a way to completely eradicate the virus, eg. if everyone in the world stays locked in their homes for 6 weeks, then the virus will be eradicated. That's not realistic, the level of coordination required to make that happen does not exist. So eradicating the virus was never on the table, no matter ho…

But if everyone had stayed locked in for 6 weeks and if that had prevented 50000 deaths, how is that not worth it?

If you're talking about US, that's 275,688 person days in lockdown per death prevented, although that seems so extreme I'm afraid my math is off.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#734

Post by ethanbond »

rayiner wrote: post #689
samatman wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears to have worked for New Zealand, though notably, not anywhere else, even Australia. So you can argue that it was infeasible, and I would have to agree with you. But you can't argue it was impossible.

Island.

Sorry is the implication that the US is in the state it’s in because infected people are continuously walking across the border and infecting more people?

If no, then being an island isn’t really relevant here.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#735

Post by mhb »

rsfern wrote: post #723
marcell wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if it's worth it or not, but after you end the lockdown, you have the same situation you did at the start of the lockdown. I think there's a huge misconception in many media sources that lockdown will somehow eliminate the virus. It can change the onset pattern of the virus, but that's it.

One of the main points of the lockdowns were to get the infection rate down to a level where testing and tracing is tractable, not to outright eliminate the virus necessarily. It seems like most states in the US were not prepared for that when they decided to open back up, and now places like FL are in this impossible situation — how do you trace 10k+ infections a day?

Especially if it takes a week to get a test result.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#736

Post by _7fvc »

I follow COVID-19 data. I notice an interesting trend: Cases increase. Deaths and hospitalizations have not increased much.

It seems the US has come up with good enough cures for COVID-19. The cost of shutdown is high. The trend is reopening.

https://vida.io/dashboards/ckbk04mht00000ul63lr6m53w

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#737

Post by s1artibartfast »

vkou wrote: post #403
chrisseaton wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't these charter schools free and open to everyone? What's the problem? If people don't want to send their children to your public schools then take a look at why.

No, they aren't, because they expel problem students, into the public system. Even if admissions are lottery-based, expulsions are not. Imagine two groceries. One that has to, by law, serve every kind of customer, and one that is allowed to throw out shoplifters, drunks, people high-out-of-their-minds-on-meth, etc. Which one of these will provide better groceries for lower prices?

Don't we want better groceries for lower prices?

The question is if there is a net benefit in educational outcomes for the combined charter and public system.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#738

Post by JungleGymSam »

electriclove wrote: post #626
oramit wrote: post #358

What we currently have going on right now is a complete collapse in confidence. So many commenters are debating the death rate, case counts, hospitalizations, etc, which is all besides the point. Heres the thing: even if you believe people are being irrationally afraid, telling people they are stupid and should just suck it up isn't going to get people to cooperate. Do you want to be smugly right, or do you want thin…

I'm very pleased by the decision from the top in California today about keeping schools remote until things get better. The only complaint I have is how long it took to get there. Tons of people at hundreds/thousands of school districts and private schools throughout the state have spent incredible effort debating and planning and so much effort could have been saved if the decision from the top was made earlier.

I don't share your admiration for "the top".

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#739

Post by [deleted] »

gowld wrote: post #688
oramit wrote: post #358

What we currently have going on right now is a complete collapse in confidence. So many commenters are debating the death rate, case counts, hospitalizations, etc, which is all besides the point. Heres the thing: even if you believe people are being irrationally afraid, telling people they are stupid and should just suck it up isn't going to get people to cooperate. Do you want to be smugly right, or do you want thin…

The financial damage is completely self inflicted. There is plenty of food, housing, and other necessities of all kinds except some items specific to treating the pandemic itself (which is important, but not the goal of "reopen it the economy"). Closing restaurants and football stadiums doesn't deprive anyone of the necessities of life and health. We can watch TV for entertainment. People doing essential work haven't…

[deleted]

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#740

Post by Larrikin »

chrisseaton wrote: post #673
WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd send them to in-school expulsion (basically an empty room for 8 hours, no talking, no phones allowed.

Why would they do anything more there if they weren't willing to do anything in the classroom?

Most bad kids feed off an audience and distract the class. 8 hours in near silence, with no peers to feed off is a punishment.
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