Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

731–740 of 970 posts

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#731

Post by basch »

dmoy wrote: post #725
basch wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iron fist is a double edged sword in some senses. Although reddit acted as a free speech haven for a long time, it was only overall, and not ever in major specific communities. True free speech is valued because it fosters debate, and allows bad speech to be rebutted by more speech. A marketplace of ideas, and maybe more importantly, the counterspeech doctrine, are incredibly important principals in justifying th…

> True free speech is valued because it fosters debate, and allows bad speech to be rebutted by more speech Sure, but in practice this is what true free speech on reddit for a large sub looks like before moderation * 3 knee jerk replies * 10 pieces of spam asking you to buy their bit/altcoin or click on their affiliate links * 5 people who are hurling vile insults at you for whatever reason * 8 more people who are hu…

It would be interesting to see an implementation that lets you view but not interact with removed content. click the spam tag to see all the spam, grayed out. in some cases it might be helpful to know what not to say, or that something has already been said and removed. /r/askhistorians would probably be a place where marking something as removed but visible would not be as at risk of propagating urban legend or bad history. hopefully that community would know what they are getting when they peak beneath the curtain.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#732

Post by SmokeyHamster »

nullc wrote: post #20

I'm confused by the article. My understanding was that reddit replaced the moderators of /r/The_Donald months ago after initially making in quarantined. The Wikipedia article seems to agree with my understanding: > In February 26, 2020, Reddit administrators removed a number of r/The_Donald moderators "that were approving, stickying, and generally supporting content in this subreddit that breaks [Reddit's] content po…

>What's wrong with just saying that it's their platform and they have the right to set the rules?

Because the admins still need people to believe they're the "good guys". And we all know the good guys don't censor people. That's what evil fascist governments do.

I would routinely visit the_donald. It was definitely a ruckus pro-Trump circle jerk, but it was hardly racist or abusive. It was mostly just silly pro-Trump memes. There's far more black Trump supporters than most people realize. The media does everything they can to hide them, so a lot of people would love to post photos of them with funny captions like "Oh look, another white supremacist Trump supporter!"

The admins couldn't have that, but they couldn't outright ban them without appearing draconian. So they instead tried just banning most of the mods, hoping the remaining mod would agree to the admin's terms of appointing only admin-approved puppet mods. Of course, the mod balked at that and just locked the sub and forwarded everyone to thedonald.win, the backup site.

So the admins ended up with the worst of both worlds. They still looked like the bad guys who shut down a sub on a whim, but now there's still a huge trove of funny non-racist pro-Trump memes sitting on their site for any Google searcher to stumble upon, which will only reinforce just how draconian the admins have become. By banning the sub outright, all that content gets deleted and hidden from search engines, so now when they vaguely label it "hate", you can't refute it.

Orwell nailed it. We've always been at war with ~~Eastasia~~ Eurasia.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#733

Post by rcxdude »

Covzire wrote: post #323
CM30 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best solution is not to cave to anyone. It's to come out, say what you think is best, then tell anyone who disagrees to either take it or leave the platform. If enough companies, groups and individuals do that, this sort of pressure will stop, since people will learn it doesn't work. Most people won't stop using a platform over this stuff anyway.

I wish it were that easy, but the things that keep people from shouting extremely distasteful but legal speech on every street corner of busy intersections don't really work for the internet, at least not yet. I suspect the only way to get a truly free and open honest platforms, is by removing anonymity and forcing users to categorize/tag their speech and then use punitive measures if they don't tag correctly. Say yo…

This is basically how booru image boards work.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#734

Post by SmokeyHamster »

shakezula wrote: post #171
Miner49er wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the ban of T_D is only symbolic; it has been dead for months. I think the real news here is the ban of /r/ChapoTrapHouse, (arguably) the most active leftist subreddit there was.

ChapoTrapHouse has been laughing for months about their incoming ban, though. They knew it was coming and they've been preparing for it by migrating to other subs, moving to Discord, etc... T_D users are probably doing the exact same.

Oh yeah. They began advertising thedonald.win last year.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#735

Post by seph-reed »

RonanTheGrey wrote: post #707
seph-reed wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not. It's a theory a friend and I philosophized about for a while in college, but nothing published. If you'd like to check our work though, play with proving/disproving the following: 1. All negativity/opposition is inherently hypocritical 2. Negativity/opposition is necessary 3. Your opposition will always focus more on your negative differences than your negative similarities 4. Focusing on similarities is th…

I'm sitting here thanking God for people like you because what you've just described sounds IDEAL. I firmly believe the best way to resolve all this is not censorship but by shining that light as brightly as possible. I wonder what a workable version of this looks like?

I have some hazy concepts around it. I suspect very humble inception.

Something like having the other person think they're better than you for having less of their flaws than you do. Sort of a reverse psychology type of thing, but with more potential for doing harm.

To be able to do it, one would have to first heal their ego I think. Be able to look like a jackass and not let it get to their head.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#736

Post by SmokeyHamster »

three_seagrass wrote: post #295
Miner49er wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the ban of T_D is only symbolic; it has been dead for months. I think the real news here is the ban of /r/ChapoTrapHouse, (arguably) the most active leftist subreddit there was.

The current mods killed the_donald. The mods, not the admins, made it so that only a shortlist of approved users could post content in the subreddit. It was likely a move to push the community somewhere else.

>The mods, not the admins, made it so that only a shortlist of approved users could post content in the subreddit.

Admins banned virtually all the mods, without warning or explanation, so the remaining mod(s) had no choice but to lock the sub.

One of the tricks leftist groups like to do is they'll brigade right-leaning subs, post a ton of "offensive" content, then before the mods can remove it, they'll screenshot it, post it up on a blog, and then alert the admins to trick them into banning the sub. That's how they got the sub quarantined.

With only one or two mods left, they couldn't properly police the sub anymore, which had close to a million subscribers and tens of thousands of active posters at any given hour. Put yourself in their shoes. If it was the choice between accept random unknown (but admin approved) users as moderators, or lock the sub, what would you do?

Of course you'd lock the sub. It was just an attempt at a soft-takeover. Better it be outright banned than lobotomized by replacing its mods with Reddit users who likely hate Trump.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#737

Post by vxNsr »

deanCommie wrote: post #585
Natsu wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I've seen almost all of those things on the front page of Reddit, too. Just recently, on the front page of reddit, I've seen a headline saying to cut off a cop's dick because he tasered someone (I believe it said 'take his badge and his manhood'), ACAB types have been threatening to kill cops, Reddit has doxxed the wrong people for major crimes, etc. It's particularly ironic because the original justification for…

"Take his badge and gun" is the typical expression. That person replaced gun with manhood implying that the person's manhood is derived from them power-tripping with weapons. Threatening violence IN RESPONSE to violence is a far cry from INSTIGATING violence against peace. One is defending yourself against bullying by standing up to it with comparable force. The other is bullying. Is there nothing people like you won…

> That person replaced gun with manhood implying that the person's manhood is derived from them power-tripping with weapons.

That’s quite the convenient stretch. Pretty impressive how some people are amazing at reading subtext where non exists as long as it plays into their narrative.

> Threatening violence IN RESPONSE to violence is a far cry from INSTIGATING violence against peace.

I mean... police going after law makers isn’t exactly peaceful. But again, whatever fits your narrative is true and everything else is fakenews(TM).

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#738

Post by vxNsr »

mcguire wrote: post #351
bitexploder wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you had any doubt about the character of TD and what it has become at its new home, just cruise around it. It’s full of conspiracy theories, misogyny, racism, and outright calls to violence. It is a common sentiment there that the only good Democrat is a dead one. These “edgy” takes receive many upvotes.

You mean like https://thedonald.win/p/GIEYMyjj/steven-huffman-the-most-col...

Is there a real discernible difference between that and efforts on politics to label trump a rapist. Both are false allegations that haven’t been proven. At least this t_d post is very clearly fake/satire. While the stuff that gets up voted on /r/politics tries very hard to take itself seriously even as they push lies.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#739

Post by electrotype »

chippy wrote: post #643
sschueller wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, r/videos is so locked down you don't get anything relevant other than some old cat video repost.

/r/movies had posters who literally and out in the open said they were employed by netflix to post netflix videos they said their manager thought reddit would like. I avoided the place ever since then. That was about 4 years ago.

I pick my subreddits and I never look at the default/popular ones. There are some topics/interests for which Reddit is still the place to be, sadly.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#740

Post by caconym_ »

mancerayder wrote: post #713
ebg13 wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Orwell coined the term "doublethink" to describe two contradictory concepts held simultaneously. Something like this: > >Consequences may include social sanctions and violent reactions. > >exercise your right to free speech (which is your right) This is a false assessment. The fundamental government-blind right to speech does not include a right to group inclusion. There's nothing contradictory about you having the…

>And it's not contradictory to have moral rules in favor of speech and against hate while also allowing the community to punch a nazi in the face for being a nazi. There it is again. Yes, it absolutely is contradictory to proclaim that you support freedom of expression while threatening to punch someone in the face when you disagree with their ideas!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

> Less well known [than other paradoxes Popper discusses] is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.—In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.

Emphasis mine, obviously. For the most part, political extremists in America don't seem to be at the "fists and pistols" point—at least, they generally are not actively committing violence—but they have certainly denounced rational argument by their conduct and the rhetorical strategies they employ. A liberal society needs an active and healthy immune system to prevent pockets of radical illiberalism from growing unchecked.

I'm not necessarily in favor of punching "Nazis" in the face yet, if they haven't started the violence first, but Nazism is toxic and so is the inclination to treat all opinions as equally valid. Such opinions should certainly not be allowed by e.g. any responsible operator of a social media platform.

Post reply on HN