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Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

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Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#731

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

djsumdog wrote: post #617
SilasX wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At risk of nitpicking, why do say "controls" rather than e.g. "services" or "handles"? When you say "controls" it's like you're saying Google has some kind of monopoly power that makes it hard to switch. And yet anyone can easily switch to e.g. DuckDuckGo. If that's a monopoly, it's not quite the kind of a monopoly we should generally be worried about. Browsers would be a different issue. In that case, there are netw…

They do in fact control Android. The open headset alliance means Android is open source in name only. Only tinkerers/hackers use ASOP derivatives by itself (or some foreign manufactures that cannot to offer Google Play services .. or Amazon Fire makers). They dominate the software ecosystem. Although it's not difficult to load 3rd party applications, it's certainly not common. Their removal of the Podcast Addicts app…

Simple add on - i can no longer uninstall any google apps from my droid phone. Best i can do is disable.

On this topic. WSJ states DoJ is readying antitrust vs google ij near future. May turn out to be quite an accomplishment if done

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#732

Post by ccsnags »

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 wrote: post #83
gabaix wrote: post #63

Youtube is in a tough spot. They will be blamed: - if they don't take down speech some consider hateful - if they take down speech some do not consider hateful 共匪 is seen as an insult by a group, but others do not. If Youtube bans nothing, then hate speech thrives and they get bad PR. If Youtube bans anything anyone flags as hate speech, then they become de facto as censorship agents for foreign powers. Anything crit…

Compounding this is the veritable explosion of what words which are considered “harmful”, not to mention how vogue it is to be offended (“harmed”) on behalf of another group. If google is hoping to appease these groups, they’re in for a futile challenge.

They consider offense to be harm because they seem to want to justify violence against their political rivals.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#733

Post by jiveturkey »

koheripbal wrote: post #112

I think a more fundamental problem is a single private company having a near-monopoly on various public communication channels, and having financial interests in various global dictatorships. The Founding Fathers could not have predicted this. Google's "We're a private company" get-out-jail-free card cannot continue to apply.

> Google's "We're a private company" get-out-jail-free card cannot continue to apply.

It can, should, must and most importantly, will.

What's really not acceptable is their monopoloy position on information, not that they, as a private company, have a right to decide what to publish.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#734

Post by atomashpolskiy »

dang wrote: post #570
atomashpolskiy wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, dang. I've sent a letter to hn@ycombinator.com 5 hours ago, questioning why my AskHN submission "Self-censorship on HN" has been flagged and blocked for further replies. Have you seen it by any chance? I'm really concerned about the issue. > Do you really think we're suppressing discussion of the suppression of the phrase "communist bandits" from YouTube? I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion…

I have not seen it yet. If you saw the inbox you'd understand why. I'll get to it as soon as I can. Edit: One not-so-obvious reason why subthreads like this are so disastrous for HN is that they suck up all the moderation resources. I haven't had a chance to even look at the rest of the HN front page yet, let alone the emails.

Thanks for the reply. If subthreads like this happen at all (let alone, as you put it, are so disastrous), then it might be a good idea to revisit the moderation mechanisms, don't you think so? Ideally, with a public discussion.

What I'd personally be happy to see being discussed:

- abandoning downvoting of comments completely

- introducing a compensation mechanism for flagging of comments (debatable)

- displaying all flagged submissions in a separate page with a link in the header (like "new", "ask", etc.)

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#735

Post by natestemen »

envy2 wrote: post #239
barbegal wrote: post #132

As a software engineer I understand these sort of bugs. A product manager in China asks: can we find a way to prevent people commenting on these videos with comments that contain the word 共匪. Engineer goes away and comes up with a plan to train an AI model to detect these comments. He present's this solution to his manager who informs him that the solution needs to be in place next week, there is no time to gather th…

Except YouTube is blocked in China, so no one really should be trying to solve this to begin with...

people read/write chinese outside of China though...

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#736

Post by rat9988 »

djsumdog wrote: post #617
SilasX wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At risk of nitpicking, why do say "controls" rather than e.g. "services" or "handles"? When you say "controls" it's like you're saying Google has some kind of monopoly power that makes it hard to switch. And yet anyone can easily switch to e.g. DuckDuckGo. If that's a monopoly, it's not quite the kind of a monopoly we should generally be worried about. Browsers would be a different issue. In that case, there are netw…

They do in fact control Android. The open headset alliance means Android is open source in name only. Only tinkerers/hackers use ASOP derivatives by itself (or some foreign manufactures that cannot to offer Google Play services .. or Amazon Fire makers). They dominate the software ecosystem. Although it's not difficult to load 3rd party applications, it's certainly not common. Their removal of the Podcast Addicts app…

The sentence he was specifically talking about: Google controls 91.89% of the search market [1]

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#737

Post by jimmaswell »

streb-lo wrote: post #496
koheripbal wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was that the Constitution does not handle the current situation - not specifically that the authors thought of it or not.

OK, but why is there so much Constitution/Founding Father worship in America? It's a flawed document that has lead to a flawed nation. It does not have Messiah-like abilities to deal with current problems so why be surprised it doesn't have modern solutions to modern problems.

It's an outstanding document all things considered. Aside from some things like implicitly allowing slavery at the time, the constitution + bill of rights are nearly perfect as a foundation for the role a federal government should play in my opinion, especially with some additions like the 14th. Nothing else that I've seen captures the essence of good governance quite the same.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#738

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

akersten wrote: post #517
cryptonector wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before 1988 in the U.S. we had "equal time" laws that required that broadcast media present both sides of political debates with "equal time" for each side. That's because for decades there were three sources of content: ABC, CBS, and NBC. Then cable and alternative radio ended that oligopoly for a while and those laws were removed. Now we have just a few mass media content producers and a few mass social media outle…

Those "equal time" laws, more collectively the Fairness Doctrine, was struck down as unconstitutional because it forced broadcasters to host speech they did not agree with. Why would we expect to be able to force Google to host speech they disagree with?

> "Why would we expect to be able to force Google to host speech they disagree with?"

So what Google is doing with this particular epithet is fine is what you're saying? Sure hope there's no other cause that you champion that Google decides they disagree with someday.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#739

Post by elefanten »

exo-pla-net wrote: post #320

YouTube filtering slurs and hateful memes is not surprising. They would target anything that gets spammed and reduces the quality of discourse (such as it is on YouTube). I see no evidence that China is getting any special treatment here. It was the subject of hateful spam, so now it gets a filter. Same would apply to any other country or topic. From my perspective, the absolutist "freedom of speech"/anti-censorship…

You're conflating censorship and moderation.

Moderation can create a productive discussion, but no automated word filter is going to fix that community if people are motivated to be hateful, troll or spam.

Besides, the subject in question is not "hateful spam" or a "hateful" meme. It's charged, opinionated political speech but you'd really have to be stretching the meaning of "hateful" to apply it here.

Of course, expanding that definition is the political strategy of some interest groups right now. But this is a great illustration of how fuzzy and easily abused that advocacy really is.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#740

Post by dh5 »

gabaix wrote: post #63

Youtube is in a tough spot. They will be blamed: - if they don't take down speech some consider hateful - if they take down speech some do not consider hateful 共匪 is seen as an insult by a group, but others do not. If Youtube bans nothing, then hate speech thrives and they get bad PR. If Youtube bans anything anyone flags as hate speech, then they become de facto as censorship agents for foreign powers. Anything crit…

As an aside, I'm of the opinion that selective censorship marginalizes groups that don't readily have representation at companies like Google. I'm talking about with terms like "redneck" or even "dumb American" that we (me included) mention that go with the flow of current mainstream discourse that some groups likely find offensive. Perhaps that is why there can be a divide and we end up with such insular communities like infowars or thedonald.
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