Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

731–740 of 784 posts

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#731

Post by trpc »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #706
trpc wrote: post #74

There were, not long ago, times when Assange was considered a saint of freedom after he exposed the corrupt Bush administration, the liberals everywhere were defending him and his case everywhere, they even made a Hollywood film about him. But he then made the mistake of his life, he exposed the corruption of the Clintons and got implicated in the Russia gate meme because Trump somehow won. Now he is totally on his o…

I agree he’s a saint of freedom. I also have no trouble believing the testimony that he sexually assaulted someone. I’m not sure how those things are at odds.

They are not, but isn't it a weird coincidence that his alleged victims stayed silent with a fucking RAPE case until he decided to expose the most powerful people and governments in the world?

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#732

Post by tripzilch »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #340
ckastner wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You quote: > “Mr. Assange has been deliberately exposed, for a period of several years, to progressively severe forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, the cumulative effects of which can only be described as psychological torture.“ That quote lacked information on who was exposing him and what that exposure actually was, so I followed your source. That source elaborates as follows: > “In the co…

If she finds his treatment report worthy she should visit almost any county jail in America and write a report. I'm seriously not being flippant. If people genuinely find this kind of treatment disturbing and inhumane then they should know it is befalling daily many of their over 2 million incarcerated American brothers and sisters.

Yes, American jails and prisons are terrible. Also the fact that 2% of your adult population is in there.

IMHO you should all be ashamed. The very fact that even in a normal adult conversation, an American can gleefully make a remark about anal rape and how they wish it upon whatever criminal. Sexual violence in your prison system has become so normalized that it's gotten its own little disgusting euphemism in your language: "pick up the soap". Even in polite company, use that little phrase and it's suddenly a-okay to joke about rape.

It's very simple. If it's that normal, that expected, that people in prison become victims of sexual violence. Then that is what you're sentencing them to. Which is corporeal punishment. Which is barbaric.

So think about that next time someone jokes about someone going to "federal pound em in the ass prison", what they are in fact advocating is that they deserve corporeal punishment by anal rape. There's something to be said about the countries where they give you beatings or lashings, they do it publicly so at least it functions as a deterrent. You hide it and pretend it's a joke because lol buttrape.

So no, don't EVER bring up the American prison/jail system as some sort of "example" for how to treat criminals .. and maybe check yourself if you DON'T find it disturbing and inhumane.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#733

Post by L_Rahman »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #674
L_Rahman wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange's living conditions were entirely self inflicted. He could have surrendered himself to the Swedish authorities, undergone a trial and had he served time would have spent time in a prison system known for its humane treatment and low recidivism rates: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/26/prison-swede... I am of course assuming that he wouldn't be extradited to the US, in which case not surrendering…

>I am of course assuming that he wouldn't be extradited to the US, How can you make this assumption given that he was extradited for the exact reasons he mentioned?

I am not making that assumption, only pointing out that my argument hinges on that being the case and concede that if he does get extradited it was smarter from his perspective to be a fugitive.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#734

Post by tripzilch »

jeffdavis wrote: post #560
blattimwind wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US justice system is possibly the most cruel justice system in the West, and by quite a margin, too. It is one of a few aspects in which the US is far closer to today's developing and third world countries than to the Western average. Also over many decades many organizations have called out the conditions in parts of the US justice system as torture(-like).

The US is a leader in many respects, due largely to our Constitutionally-protected rights. I'm not a fan of the US prison system. But are you seriously claiming that the whole justice system is worse than Venezuela or Honduras?

Are you seriously confused about what they meant by "worst in the West"?

What do you expect, a pat on the back for not being as bad as those?

Prisons are meant as a way to take people's freedom away for some amount of time, not to sneak in extra corporeal punishment by making them as shitty as possible. What is happening in the US is definitely the latter, and what's worse, many people seem to cheer for it.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#735

Post by SuoDuanDao »

shadowgovt wrote: post #315
SuoDuanDao wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume he did his homework on Clinton. Whatever else one thinks of Assange, he must have known what skeletons were in her closet.

We're off in speculation territory, but I think it's unlikely the situation would have been worse for him than it is now (unless one buys into the ridiculous "The Clintons have people killed" conspiracy theory, in which case I have the basement of a pizza parlor to sell if anyone's buying. ;) ).

which to me, implies that Assange bought into that theory in 2016. Which given his situation, makes me think that 'rediculous' might not be the best descriptor.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#736

Post by tripzilch »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #340
ckastner wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You quote: > “Mr. Assange has been deliberately exposed, for a period of several years, to progressively severe forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, the cumulative effects of which can only be described as psychological torture.“ That quote lacked information on who was exposing him and what that exposure actually was, so I followed your source. That source elaborates as follows: > “In the co…

If she finds his treatment report worthy she should visit almost any county jail in America and write a report. I'm seriously not being flippant. If people genuinely find this kind of treatment disturbing and inhumane then they should know it is befalling daily many of their over 2 million incarcerated American brothers and sisters.

> If she finds his treatment report worthy she should visit almost any county jail in America and write a report. I'm seriously not being flippant. If people genuinely find this kind of treatment disturbing and inhumane then they should know it is befalling daily many of their over 2 million incarcerated American brothers and sisters.

Did you miss the part where Assange went through all this trouble to not go to Sweden because there was the POSSIBILITY of him being extradited to the US end ending up in that prison system?

Yes he could have also done nothing and run the very real risk of ultimately getting the worst treatment that you enact upon your brothers and sisters. But that is the whole thing he was trying to avoid.

If in the process of that, he was exposed to "severe forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, the cumulative effects of which can only be described as psychological torture", which MAY or MAY NOT be worse than the US prison system (which is a pretty low bar to clear and pretty bad either way), then yeah he pretty certainly has a case to be made in the parts of the world where we pretend to treat human beings with dignity.

The entire point was to not end up in the clutches of the US, so if your point was "if you think that's bad, look at the US", then here's a big WELL DUH for you ...

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#737

Post by tripzilch »

zepto wrote: post #711
boomboomsubban wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His extradition has been requested, I should have made that clearer.

Seems like if that request is denied then he’ll have confined himself to the embassy for nothing.

Except this whole subthread started over a remark that what he went through wasn't as bad as how the US treats people in its jails.

Which was still bad enough to deserve a written condemnation from the UN.

The US simply ignores all these reports by various international oversight organisations such as the UN, or the ICC (there are strictly per definition no war criminals among US citizens isn't that great).

So yeah, ending up there, especially after you pissed them off, is something to be avoided at all costs.

Doesn't mean that someone is deserving of any and all treatment that is strictly "not as bad" (because that's a pretty friggin low bar).

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#738

Post by tripzilch »

dhab wrote: post #719
DubiousPusher wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If she finds his treatment report worthy she should visit almost any county jail in America and write a report. I'm seriously not being flippant. If people genuinely find this kind of treatment disturbing and inhumane then they should know it is befalling daily many of their over 2 million incarcerated American brothers and sisters.

I found most of the comment fine except for the part ...brothers and sisters which feels like it was designed to evoke some emotion/strong response. I assume most of us would prefer them (brothers and sisters) be there, tucked away from the vicinity of family members?

and "tucked away" seems to evoke the idea that you actually treat them humanely, which you don't. which is the topic of discussion here. not the part where you take their freedom to keep them away from society, which the civilized countries also do.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#739

Post by boomboomsubban »

zepto wrote: post #711
boomboomsubban wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His extradition has been requested, I should have made that clearer.

Seems like if that request is denied then he’ll have confined himself to the embassy for nothing.

Not necessarily. If the UK refuses the request, they likely would have accepted the request from Sweden, and Sweden may have then turned him over to the US.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#740

Post by tripzilch »

samdfonseca wrote: post #348
ckastner wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You quote: > “Mr. Assange has been deliberately exposed, for a period of several years, to progressively severe forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, the cumulative effects of which can only be described as psychological torture.“ That quote lacked information on who was exposing him and what that exposure actually was, so I followed your source. That source elaborates as follows: > “In the co…

> "arbitrary confinement in the Ecuadorian embassy, to his oppressive isolation, harassment and surveillance inside the embassy, and from deliberate collective ridicule, insults and humiliation" Not only hyperbole, but it's entirely self-imposed. He wasn't confined to the embassy, he chose to stay there rather than face trial. He chose "deliberate collective ridicule, insults and humiliation" over defending himself a…

He was at a very real risk of being extradited to the US. You know, one of those countries that keeps ignoring UN human rights reports.

It's not a stretch that he preferred ""deliberate collective ridicule, insults and humiliation" over what the US would do to him.

Doesn't mean that's fair or just. Just that he chose something less inhumane than the US.

Post reply on HN