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Richard M. Stallman resigns

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Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#731

Post by tboyd47 »

sneak wrote: post #726
tboyd47 wrote: post #725

Can anyone please provide context on this? Why did RMS feel the need to personally step in and weigh in on the Minsky allegations? Was it indeed just carelessness on his behalf, as many are speculating? Or were his comments part of another conversation inside the FSF that has not been made public? I've read the email chain that's been circulated but it does not go back far enough. It's the "comments about comments" d…

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9ke3ke/famed-computer-sci... actual source email thread embedded at the bottom of the vice article

I'm re-reading it now. Maybe I'm just not able to follow the text-based email chain format, but it doesn't seem to include RMS's original email with his comments except quoted as part of another email, which leads me to think that part of the conversation is being covered up. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#732

Post by rtkwe »

efa wrote: post #638
kelnos wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we please stop excusing bad behavior with some form of "oh because autism"? It's an insult to the many, many neuro-atypical people who don't say shitty, stupid things online, who don't act creepy around women, who don't have a sign on their MIT office that says "Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)", who don't have a gross mattress in their office where they encourage people to lie topless, who don't try to pres…

My daughter who has autism constantly says things that could be considered offensive because she's not aware of sensitivities around race, gender, orientation, etc. It certainly can explain it for certain individuals. You can't say many neuro-atypical people don't say bad things so it can't be an excuse for him. "Neuro-atypical" is a huge, huge group of people who are very different.

The ultimate thing is though that as the leader of the FSF foundation his actions have broader consequences and demand a stricter scrutiny. He was given a loooong time to learn and improve, people have been talking about how he's actually kind of sexist and problematic for years.

Stallman's job as head of FSF wasn't just to be technically competent, which he has in spades, but to forward the mission of the foundation and a certain level of social acuity is a necessary part of that.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#733

Post by Beltiras »

colechristensen wrote: post #652
marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

There are a chain of media reports which inaccurately portray what Stallman was saying. But look past that into what was happening. Stallman was trying to defend Minsky who had sex with someone, a teenager, nearly 60 years younger than him on a billionaire's private island. There isn't an imaginable circumstance where what happened there was not, even in the best possible light, incredibly creepy. His intellectual ar…

Statutory rape is not "having sex". Even if you make the girl a year older I am not sure the situation changes very much. The power dynamic is not allowing her a lot of free choices.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#736

Post by eloff »

colechristensen wrote: post #679

RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…

How is it we value free speech, but there are certain discussions you just cannot have, even in a rational and measured way, without risking making yourself completely unemployable. You should be able to have a questionable viewpoint in a discussion, without worrying about the lynch mob ending your career.

The consequences here are out of line. You can be reprimanded to take your discussions to a non company venue, in a situation like this, but fired is over the top.

Stallman said “it is morally absurd to define ‘rape’ in a way that depends on minor details such as which country it was in or whether the victim was 18 years old or 17.”

It's pretty clear with the age difference being what it is, this is exactly what statutory rape laws are for. But it is also incongruous that somehow if she was a year older it would be ok. It's also fucked up that if Minsky were 19, the consequences would be the same. Maybe there's a better law to be had here, but how would we ever know if you can't even have the discussion?

I'm appalled by how free speech is under attack lately by the outrage machine.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#737

Post by ubermonkey »

LaGrange wrote: post #480
nabla9 wrote: post #343

RMS has called himself "borderline autistic". His socially clueless black and white thinking makes it look like he is far in the spectrum. RMS is anal about meanings of terms and their use. That's not working well in the current climate where words carry perceived intent. I find myself agreeing with RMS with most of the terminology and its use in this case. Women who tell stories about him paint a picture of lonely s…

> RMS has called himself "borderline autistic". As someone actually autistic, he doesn't get to blame being a douchecanoe on being autistic. > His socially clueless black and white thinking makes it look like he is far in the spectrum. Then _learn_. Also, we're not talking about not getting social cues about when it's okay to start talking, we're talking his considered and repeated position on issues such as sexual a…

GREAT comment, and honestly it's an indictment of HN that it's currently downvoted.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#738

Post by linksnapzz »

ixtli wrote: post #717
colechristensen wrote: post #679

RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…

Let's be honest, the people who disagree with your comment are worried that eventually someone will out them for their terrible behavior as well! It's shocking to me how unaccustomed to being held accountable some people are. Here's a radical supposition: it's actually good when speech has consequences in society.

I'm totally certain you've sifted properly all possible consequences, as well as what does and does not constitute accountability....

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#739

Post by lanevorockz »

colechristensen wrote: post #679

RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…

Stop the cancel culture .. LEARN TO SPEAK WITH PEOPLE YOU DISAGREE WITH ! You fake belief that you are perfect is the exact reason you will be cancelled if you ever succeed in anything

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#740

Post by hutzlibu »

ixtli wrote: post #717
colechristensen wrote: post #679

RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…

Let's be honest, the people who disagree with your comment are worried that eventually someone will out them for their terrible behavior as well! It's shocking to me how unaccustomed to being held accountable some people are. Here's a radical supposition: it's actually good when speech has consequences in society.

Welcome to online witch hunt. Anyone defending the witch is probably a witch as well.

How about a rational debate concerning factual things? I have allmost no background information, knew RMS only as the weird FSF guru .. and it is very hard for me to find facts. Most of the debate is about other stuff, than what actually happened.

edit: so apparently all of it started with this:

https://medium.com/@selamie/remove-richard-stallman-fec6ec21...

A rant by a female MIT student, offended by something she rad of RMS she did not know before. She writes very emotional, but much better, in terms of facts, than what vice etc. made out of it

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