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Terminating Service for 8Chan

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Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#731

Post by BillyBadA »

onli wrote: post #701
toyg wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply This actually happens in Europe, typically when authorities decide squatters should not be tolerated. TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN. If there is a demand for specific niches, a supply will eventually emerge, like it has for porn.

> TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN If a CDN is necessary to support the site being a public platform that's not a given. This whole "A private company should be able to act like it pleases" that Cloudflare mirrors in their news is an ideological standpoint, not an absolute truth. It's certainly possible to see it differently: If a comp…

"This stuff happens in the US because the easy access to guns allows murderers to act like this. It does not matter whether 8chan falls now or whether it survives or whether the US limits their extreme stance on free speech as long the US society continues to accept that those massacres happen in favor of having guns available to everyone."

We will never surrender our weapons. Sure some may, but a good majority of us will not. We had a European government here once, but it became oppressive, so we booted them out. We did so because we had weapons to do so. We have the 2nd Amendment because we want the government to fear the population, not the other way around. Unless you want the U.S. to look like Alepo, it's just best to not go there.

Gun's are not the problem either. The problem is people, and total lack of respect. Everyone wants to force everyone in the country to love everyone, which is nice, sure. But how can you accomplish that when you can't even respect your neighbor.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#732

Post by Y_Y »

toyg wrote: post #667
CM30 wrote: post #656

I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…

> because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply This actually happens in Europe, typically when authorities decide squatters should not be tolerated. TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN. If there is a demand for specific niches, a supply will eventually emerge, like it has for porn.

In some parts of Europe water and electricity are considered rights, and you cannot cut off service to a home under normal circumstances.

see e.g. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/priorities/deeper-and-fairer...

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#733

Post by vgaldikas »

CM30 wrote: post #656

I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…

These scums don't deserve water let alone internet access.

I don't understand this free speach absolutism. If we can't agree that encouraging people to commit killings should not be allowed then what the fuck

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#734

Post by decoyworker »

edna314 wrote: post #549
FourScore wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're willing to give unchecked control of online discourse to a private corporation?

Do we really need to talk about closing down a site where people encourage each other to kill other people (no matter who does it)? Why is it so important that there are no exceptions to freedom of speech? Seriously, I just don’t get how the purity of the concept of freedom of speech can be so important that it beats common sense.

Freedom of speech is not without exceptions. You can't yell, "fire" in a crowded theater when there is no fire for example.

Everyone here wants that perfect idealistic and pure world, unfortunately that's now the world we are given. Problem is many here want to just treat the world we have as the idealistic model world as if there is no difference.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#735

Post by sokoloff »

serf wrote: post #726
king_magic wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those always sounded like noble, wise words. And maybe they once were. But in age when white supremacy/fascism/nazism/strongman-leader-ism is rising again, I’m no longer sure I agree with them.

> I’m no longer sure I agree with them. the problem is that the alternative is, basically, a white-list of approved ideas. Who makes this white-list? That's the issue with wholesale censorship. A system like that will get gamed as soon as the political winds change one way or another.

Exactly. It’s trivially easy to defend speech that we like. The difficult thing is defending the right to make speech the content of which we dislike or disagree with.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#736

Post by sokoloff »

mieseratte wrote: post #699
rocqua wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been many vocal calls for cloudfare to drop 8chan. This is not a move to get publicity, but cloudfare giving in to public pressure.

> This is not a move to get publicity, but cloudfare giving in to public pressure. Well I'm not sure which is worse. Using tragedy for publicity or caving to a mob.

Seems they can’t win then.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#737

Post by BillyBadA »

king_magic wrote: post #695
nopcode wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s wrong with hosting a manifesto? Getting insight into the state of mind of such an individual seems valuable, no?

What’s wrong with hosting a manifesto? It should be blindingly obvious: when they spread extremism and terrorism like a virus, there’s plenty wrong. It might make the tiniest bit of sense if we were collectively able to do something preventative about mass murders before they happened by using that “insight”. That certainly does not seem to be happening. No, I think the time is coming where white supremacist manifest…

"What’s wrong with hosting a manifesto? It should be blindingly obvious: when they spread extremism and terrorism like a virus, there’s plenty wrong."

Mein Kapmf is still published and is available online as well. I'm sure most people would agree that the view expressed by it's author were pretty extreme. No you keep that stuff up so you can show the world what a waste of space the author was and learn from it.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#739

Post by jevgeni »

AlphaGeekZulu wrote: post #597
rlonn wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but how can anyone say "what kind" of free speech...? Don't you see that labeling or discriminating between "free speech of type A, allowed" and "free speech of type B, disallowed" defeats the whole notion of "free"? Somehow people tend to think that their own discrimination isn't, while others is.

There is a clear (and working) distinction between free speech of type A and of type B in other countries. In Germany, just as an example, you are free to express your OPINION (type A), but not to express false facts (type B). If you express false facts, knowingly, and those false facts have damaging effects you are fully liable for compensation. Simple example: if a person wrongly claims, that some local artisan's b…

On top of that, German (and I think European, code law) practice has a weighted view of human rights. If two rights come into conflict, one must prevail. For example, if somebody promotes the idea that people should start a "holy war" or go against groups of people, then nobody will be like "Oh yeah, that's their freedom of speech right there". No, this kind of behavior will be considered as violating the primary human right to life and human dignity.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#740

Post by distantsounds »

onli wrote: post #701
toyg wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply This actually happens in Europe, typically when authorities decide squatters should not be tolerated. TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN. If there is a demand for specific niches, a supply will eventually emerge, like it has for porn.

> TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN If a CDN is necessary to support the site being a public platform that's not a given. This whole "A private company should be able to act like it pleases" that Cloudflare mirrors in their news is an ideological standpoint, not an absolute truth. It's certainly possible to see it differently: If a comp…

cloudflare isn't in the gun business, arguably it's in the speech business. why are you disappointed that they took action over part of the problem they have control over?
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