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Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

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Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#731

Post by Razengan »

Razengan wrote: post #234
xorblurb wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"macOS Finder": you are talking about that software that rename folders when you press the enter key? :p

Can you give a reason why Enter to open a file is ideal, other than just because it's how Windows does it? The Windows Explorer uses Alt+Enter to show the properties of something, and in games and other apps that shortcut means Full Screen. Also, why does Alt+F4 quit an app? What does F4 stand for? Compared to Cmd+Q to Quit or Cmd+W to close it's a lot less intuitive. And so on and so forth.

Correction: Cmd+W to close a window.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#732

Post by mightybyte »

freehunter wrote: post #506
mightybyte wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The operative clause there is "should be built in". And of course I can say "should be" because it has been for years now. Literally just yesterday magsafe saved my computer from being thrown off the desk. The regressions in overall user experience with this latest MBP mean that I'm no longer willing to pay Apple the premium that I've been paying them.

No, the operative clause is "I think". You're talking about your opinion, while simultaneously telling me that my opinion is worth less than yours just because it's different. It'd also be great if I could have a VGA output, but that ship has long since sailed, hasn't it? It'd also be great if I could have more than two USB ports, but I have a 2015 MacBook Pro. To get four USB ports I'd have to upgrade to the 2016 Ma…

The number of people who trip over power cords is almost definitely much larger than the number of people who need VGA output, or need four USB ports (given the easy availability of USB hubs).

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#733

Post by scholia »

ixacto wrote: post #518
scholia wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just give me a control panel. The old Control Panel is still there. > Trying to disable things like Cortana never works right. Cortana is a settable option. There's no reason to try to disable it. *> Now we have "Settings" too, which is just a mess. Settings is a clean, well-organized and simple app that does what most people want. It saves ordinary users from having to grapple with the Control Panel. You'd probabl…

Settings in windows 10 is garbage. Why do we need yet another easy-mode for the control panel? I thought that was what the larger control-panel icon groups were for in XP?

It makes settings more accessible to more people.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#734

Post by chm »

elbrian wrote: post #711
chm wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience with hardware that comes pre-loaded with Windows is that it is utter crap. Or so it seems - it works fine once you remove Windows and install Linux for example. I have kept none of my previous Windows machines. None. They all decay so fast, BSODs after months of use, constant reboots just because things don't act right, general instability, sluggishness, etc. I have only recently built myself a new Linu…

Do you just roll into WalMart and buy the first $300 HP you see? That's literally the only way I can see your anecdotal experience being truthful. The PC marketplace is open, like the Android one. There's a lot of cruft to sift through, but it should only take about 1-2 hours of research to find the best laptop at any given time and any given price range for any given use-case.

No. ~1200 PCs and laptops. I understand that it seems like I'm exaggerating. I'm not. Either I have been incredibly unlucky (or stupid in my choices), or Mac hardware is of better quality.

But you're right that it's anecdotal.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#735

Post by scholia »

ntsplnkv3 wrote: post #516
domenukk wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an awful lot of settings in but actually, being on the preview version, you notice things move to the new settings app with every update. Also links to the control panel pop up in the settings app and the search finds the correct setting usually. They get better.

To me it's just pointless. Have all of the settings in the settings app now so I don't have to go to two places to change them. The problem with settings was that it didn't include everything I wanted/needed to change. As far as search goes, my Windows 7 machine finds most settings too.

Thee are a lot of settings, and it would have taken too long to move them all at once.

The Control Panel remains because a lot of hardcore Windows users would have bitched if Microsoft had removed it.

As usual, Microsoft would have been criticized for whichever decision it made. That's life when who have more than 400 million Windows 10 users.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#736

Post by scholia »

ntsplnkv3 wrote: post #412
scholia wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just give me a control panel. The old Control Panel is still there. > Trying to disable things like Cortana never works right. Cortana is a settable option. There's no reason to try to disable it. *> Now we have "Settings" too, which is just a mess. Settings is a clean, well-organized and simple app that does what most people want. It saves ordinary users from having to grapple with the Control Panel. You'd probabl…

> You'd probably do better if you spent more time in learn mode instead of in angry mode. And you'd probably do better if you weren't condescending towards other people's experiences and preferences. You say the Settings app is great, yet it's not great enough to replace the control panel? Redundant settings abound between the two? There are many reasons to want to disable Cortana-not just turn it off, because it doe…

> And you'd probably do better if you weren't condescending towards other people's experiences and preferences.

It was simply intended as good advice.

If you think about it, there are good reasons for moving settings to a simpler, touch-sensitive, sandboxed app.

If you think about it, there are good reasons for moving settings from the Control Panel in stages, and for keeping the mouse-oriented Control Panel program around for people who have grown used to it.

If you've read the book, the anger is a System 1 rant and should be modified by System 2 thinking.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#737

Post by tnone »

reitanqild wrote: post #729
tnone wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can right click on the folder/document icon in the title bar in any app, and you can left click it to drag it. The icon, not the window. What's bizarre is how Windows has trained people to see icons as non interactive stickers instead of reactive proxies for the underlying object. The fact that many labels in Windows still don't update until you close and reopen the dialog is ridiculous, as is the continued use o…

You can right click on the folder/document icon in the title bar in any app, and you can left click it to drag it. The icon, not the window. "You are holding it wrong". The only reason to know this seems to be because someone has told someone it seems. There is no indication in the design of the element, and IIRC not even a subtle glow when you mouseover. Sorry: as much as I like Apple I don't waste my time on their…

Not everything has to be equally discoverable. By that same logic, the majority of right click interactions are off the table. You can right click window icons in Windows too, with no visual cue either, they just act different and the surface area is much smaller. Titlebars also don't tell you you can drag them, and essential productivity shortcuts like alt-tab are not advertised either.

It's okay to have to be taught some things, it makes it better for pro users when the handholding is minimal.

Here's another one: hold alt when a menu is open to see some options change into alternate versions. Instant feedback, works on dialogs too. Keeps the UI uncluttered for noobs and power users alike without significantly impeding you.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#738

Post by chm »

netzone wrote: post #673
chm wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your point about having to give an honest shot at Windows - I bought a Win10 license some months ago. It's fine. Until I wanted Emacs. Until I wanted to uninstall software. Until I wanted to setup a VM in VirtualBox (set up a Win2k12 Server VM tonight, and it simply failed to boot 3 consecutive times, then booted up in a "repair" mode, and then failed to boot again, just to boot up again after the 5-6th…

The only actual _windows_ problem of those you listed is that uninstalling software is a hassle. That said, it isn't a walk in the park on Mac either. Can't use Emacs on Windows? Use any other editor. Can't setup VM in VirtualBox? A VirtualBox (maybe) problem If you go on Windows expecting the same environment as OSX or whatever OS you're on, you're going to have a bad time. Booting up a fresh Debian install feels be…

Alright, I was feeling quite whiny yesterday. My opinion of Windows is not that bad - I bought a license, which is enough said :)

I don't prefer OS X over OpenBSD or Debian. What I like is that I can mostly just hop from one to the other without doing a context-switch. Things (mostly) work as I expect them to from one box to the other. That's not true for me on Windows (but that is to be expected).

I learned about computers on Windows, from 95 to Vista (briefly touched it and then left for Unix). I used to memorize countless contextual menus and options and paths between each, so that I would see how to solve a problem when it arose and could diagnose it without access to a computer. I still do not have the same ease with Unix.

What I have gained by using Unix is real knowledge about how computers actually work, not only how the OS itself is built. And in my anecdotal experience, typical users of Windows (at work, college and friends) unequivocally understand and know less about computers than typical users of Linux do. That is true of Mac users in general but the effect is less pronounced than with Windows - most Mac users that I know have a basic understanding of the command line.

But take this for what it is: personal experience.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#739

Post by 5ersi »

verisimilitude wrote: post #247
bradgessler wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too have become annoyed recently at really basic stuff not working in macOS, like I can't drag and drop a picture out of Photos app into Pixelmator to edit. In fact, dragging and dropping a picture out of Photos into any application is completely broken and doesn't work. Its as-if the Apple QA team no longer tests to make sure their applications play nice with each other in a way that has been fundamental to deskto…

I used and loved iPhoto and then I had a great (first impression) of Photos until I tried to do the thing you describe: DRAG AND DROP. Apple forums provided an answer (I would call it a work-around) with their usual condescending tone: hold Alt while dragging, and you can at least get a copy of the photo/video of interest into a folder in the Finder.

I just tried it in Photos 2.0 (macOS Sierra 10.12.3) and it works as expected - drag'n'drop from Photos to Finder copies files into selected Finder folder.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#740

Post by ludwigvan »

Quote 1:

> If you ask anyone who knows me, I’m probably the biggest Apple fan they know.

Quote 2:

> I was tempted away in early 2013 when Apple released its second-generation 15" Retina MacBook Pro. That machine was my first real taste of Apple’s world, and I loved it.

I rest my case.

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