Amazon Go • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Go

#731

Post by LyndsySimon » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:21 PM UTC

anonbanker wrote: post #659

LyndsySimon wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If my assertions seem improbable, you have two options: "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." You didn't provide evidence, you linked to irrelevant popular articles and someone's homework assignment. Not only did I not ridicule your post, I was careful to follow HN's guideline of assuming good faith even though that seems to not be the case here. > You mentioned you're fr…

Added evidence to the link you scrutinized, but don't let that get in the way of a good rant. Here's the evidence, because I'm sure you'll have difficulty scrolling up: https://ilsr.org/walmart-charged-predatory-pricing/ I look forward to the creative way you will dismiss this as well.

> Here's the evidence, because I'm sure you'll have difficulty scrolling up:

> I look forward to the creative way you will dismiss this as well.

Please cease the personal attacks. I've been nothing but professional in tis conversation.

> https://ilsr.org/walmart-charged-predatory-pricing/

The case in Wisconsin was settled out of court, with no admission of wrongdoing. The case in Germany was about pricing products too low to be legal, not about doing so to eliminate competition or to raise prices afterward.

The case in Oklahoma is interesting, but I never heard how it concluded and couldn't find reference to it in a brief search just now. I remember being especially interested in that when it came out because Crest Foods had alleged that David Glass, then CEO of WalMart, went to their stores with a scanner.

At any rate, none of these cases are any different from the original one in the 90s where the Arkansas Supreme Court ruled that WalMart had used "loss leaders" but that there was no evidence that they had done so for the purpose of bankrupting competitors not that they had raised prices afterward.

Your assertion was that WalMart lowers prices until competitors are bankrupted then raises prices to take advantage of its now-monopoly status. I have never seen evidence for that - and I've looked quite a bit throughout the years.

Re: Amazon Go

#732

Post by spuz » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:22 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #657

spuz wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're incorrectly separating the 'fabric of society' from the economy. The economy describes all things that are valuable to us as a society and that includes interactions with the staff at our local grocery shops. When you say "Economically it makes more sense to buy cheaper and faster" that is obviously not true for you and probably many others who are prepared to pay for the social interactions that local…

No, I think GP is totally correct. Economy does not describe "all things that are valuable to us", nor does it describe relative value between things when considering the whole picture of one's life. Economy is a system of powerful feedback loops; it amplifies momentary relative value differentials. People like the human contact, but due to financial situation prefer cheaper groceries? If shops can save on cutting ni…

Maybe I am incorrectly conflating Economics with the Economy. I understand your point about economic forces producing an outcome that is less optimal due to our failure to consider present and future effects of our decisions.

My point is that if you look at this from an economic point of view, you should be able to figure out whether or not it is good or bad (or at least know what information you need to figure out if it's good or bad). See my other comment on this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13108119

Re: Amazon Go

#733

Post by homakov » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:22 PM UTC

CrLf wrote: post #450

crazypyro wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trying to save jobs that are no longer the most efficient way of solving a problem is not the way to promote the value of humanity, in my opinion. People want groceries as cheap and fast as possible. They don't go to the grocery store for social interaction and forcing the majority of people to pay extra for something that only the minority get value out of is not a competitive strategy. If humanity were to take your…

I am unsure we are evolving. We have evolved in many areas that solve real problems, like healthcare and such, but I'm not sure today's society is any better for all the technology that allows us to save a couple of minutes in a queue. To improve the efficiency of a particular group, we create problems elsewhere. The result may not be net positive. In fact, I think it isn't, since those saved "couple of minutes" will…

Good point of view, and indeed procrastination is the opposite of evolving.

However "I am unsure we are evolving" sounds like paradox. Isn't a version 2 of anything always "evolving" by definition? Otherwise, what's "better"?

Re: Amazon Go

#734

Post by kevan » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:22 PM UTC

microDude wrote: post #682

Ok Amazon, why not do this? Skip the whole stocked shelf thing entirely. Have a website setup that customers can build a shopping cart, then just show up and pickup their "pre-bagged" groceries. The benefits to this are obvious. 1) No shop lifting. 2) Car friendly (you could have multiple drive-thru pickup lines) 3) Convenience for the shopper (saved lists, common items, don't have to walk around the store) 4) The st…

Amazon Fresh already exists[1], but they deliver instead of you picking it up.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/b/ref=Fr_Gr_Sft_Nv1_learnmore?ie=UTF8...

Re: Amazon Go

#735

Post by pshc » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:22 PM UTC

mpolichette wrote: post #633

makecheck wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from putting up the odd sign to discourage certain behavior, no, I do not think that stores have any good reason to bend over backwards to keep individual customers. Retail is far too accommodating already. Some people figure that being a “valued customer” means they can be an unending source of sunken costs in time, effort and stress, among other things. And those costs can be multiplied across the other custo…

I agree, especially you see those videos on youtube where the kids are intentionally 'slipping' and throwing multiple jugs of milk onto the floor.

The store will have video footage of everything... maybe their sensor AI will eventually distinguish between intentional and accidental spoilage.

Re: Amazon Go

#736

Post by rtkwe » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:22 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #71

helipad wrote: post #10

Technology aside, shoppers are going to feel so weird doing this at the beginning. There's already social anxiety when people pay for things and walk past a security guard, or a security barrier. Whether it's an airport, or a clothes store, or a ticket barrier, there's always a nervousness about being called out. It's bad enough in the Apple Store where you can pay and walk out, this will take some real getting used…

I'd worry a little about shitty reception on my phone meaning I'm actually shoplifting without realizing it.

It doesn't look like the phone is actually required for anything after the check in and really the only hard reason to want a phone there is to have a convenient link and another data point to help track people through the store. They could do the same tracking with cameras to associate you and the items you've pulled off the shelf. Add in RFID in the checkout lanes and you've got a pretty easy system that accommodates dying phones.

Re: Amazon Go

#737

Post by bdamm » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:22 PM UTC

smellycat wrote: post #699

crazypyro wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trying to save jobs that are no longer the most efficient way of solving a problem is not the way to promote the value of humanity, in my opinion. People want groceries as cheap and fast as possible. They don't go to the grocery store for social interaction and forcing the majority of people to pay extra for something that only the minority get value out of is not a competitive strategy. If humanity were to take your…

This doesn't take into account the value of forced social interaction. Seeing a human at the grocery, exercising patience if the line is a little longer than I would perhaps like, being forced to engage in conversation with my neighbor...There is a value to these social behaviors and value to how they shape psychological development. I worry about the world where everything is catered to Me and I, and I can go about…

Your government may enforce these interactions if it so chooses. I'd prefer my government did not, and leaves the choice of where I get my social interactions up to me.

Re: Amazon Go

#738

Post by rtkwe » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:23 PM UTC

intrasight wrote: post #42

helipad wrote: post #10

Technology aside, shoppers are going to feel so weird doing this at the beginning. There's already social anxiety when people pay for things and walk past a security guard, or a security barrier. Whether it's an airport, or a clothes store, or a ticket barrier, there's always a nervousness about being called out. It's bad enough in the Apple Store where you can pay and walk out, this will take some real getting used…

What they should feel weird about is the battery of security cameras that will watch your every move.

Why? You're already recorded pretty heavily in every chain store you go into for loss prevention.

Re: Amazon Go

#739

Post by VLM » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:24 PM UTC

pavanred wrote: post #717

crazypyro wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trying to save jobs that are no longer the most efficient way of solving a problem is not the way to promote the value of humanity, in my opinion. People want groceries as cheap and fast as possible. They don't go to the grocery store for social interaction and forcing the majority of people to pay extra for something that only the minority get value out of is not a competitive strategy. If humanity were to take your…

Does automation really remove jobs or just displace them? Honest question. I mean, in this instance, I see perhaps jobs of 10 cashiers in a store replaced with 1-2 monitoring the store and rest done by automation. But, then this gives rise to a whole set of new jobs and industries too, the engineers that design these systems, the ones that build these machines, industries supplying manufacturing of hardware for these…

It feels good to think automation doesn't eliminate jobs, but one thing is for certain, if it merely displaced them into higher salary jobs, no one would ever automate because it would eliminate profits.

At the profit levels usually seen in retail supermarkets, you can't stop paying all those people minimum wage and suddenly start paying them software dev salaries without an enormous hit to the income statement.

"won't it become uneconomical to run these stores?"

Essentially these stores are already smart vending machines stocked by humans occasionally at night. In the long run that might be where fresh food comes from. "Go to the vending machine and pick up a head of lettuce".

Re: Amazon Go

#740

Post by ben_jones » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:25 PM UTC

crazypyro wrote: post #429

delegate wrote: post #387

Look, I know this might not be a popular view here on HN, but I think this is useless. And bad. I'm not talking about the technology behind it (I think it's an amazing achievement).. I live in Barcelona and I have at least 5 medium-sized supermarkets within 5 minutes walking distance from my home. Plus there are several smaller shops that sell fruits and vegetables. I know all the people who work in these supermarket…

Trying to save jobs that are no longer the most efficient way of solving a problem is not the way to promote the value of humanity, in my opinion. People want groceries as cheap and fast as possible. They don't go to the grocery store for social interaction and forcing the majority of people to pay extra for something that only the minority get value out of is not a competitive strategy. If humanity were to take your…

TIL politicians are the most efficient ways to solve political problems..