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UK votes to leave EU

bbc.co.uk

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Re: UK votes to leave EU

#731

Post by nickik »

banach wrote: post #681

On the contrary, historical perspective is essential in understanding the issues that the EU is going through currently. If the German leadership took a good look in the mirror, it would see that it is subjecting Greece to a replica of the Treaty of Versaille and, as a result, should expect similar consequences. The PR outfall of that debacle is probably what pushed the Brits to vote for exit.

Their is a lot wrong with what you say. Clearly you are not up with current historical studies on the 'Treaty of Versaille'. The treaty was actually not particularly hard or in any way impossible to mean by Germany. If Germany had better leadership they could easily have moved passed it and be the most wealthy nation again.

What they are doing to Greece is actually much worse then Versaille. It has to do with the issue that Greece should have defaulted years (I was arguing this even in 2008) and change their government. Because of EU (EMU) logic this can not happen. So Greece is forced to change its government in the context of huge debt and even worse a flat demand curve (look at EU NGDP and Greece NGDP). Greece is about the only country that actually did significant Austerity but its not working. The EU should have let them default or take over their debt completely.

You are probably right that PR is the main issue. It was with 'Versaille' as well. German government PR is the main reason why you use 'Versaille' as an example of evil practice. Maybe the most successful example of PR in the last 100 years.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#732

Post by airesQ »

Zpalmtree wrote: post #270

Really proud that my country chose democracy over a potential loss of money.

You had democracy, and you still do.

Now Latvia has veto power on whether the UK can have access to the single market (provided that the UK ever leaves, something that has not happened).

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#733

Post by airesQ »

rdtsc wrote: post #200

Being selfish here, wonder how this affects US. Even though on the surface EU and UK are alies and trade partners, it is not all black and white. I believe US will benefit because they will be able to play UK against EU and vice-versa to gain somehow. Say if EU doesn't allow import of US chicken they can go and try to persuade UK to not allow some import from EU in exchange for some other favor and so on. Also, I wou…

It makes a surge in populism much more likely.

The betting markets were giving a 90%+ chance for Remain yesterday.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#734

Post by airesQ »

UVB-76 wrote: post #661
_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #638

Young people in the UK got really really screwed.

Young people in the UK were already screwed. Leaving the EU will open up a whole range of challenges and opportunities, some of which may see young people ending up slightly less screwed.

If you are referring to housing, the main problem was that there was not enough housing being built (last year ~140 000 houses got built, in 1971 ~400 000 got built), not that there were too many people.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#736

Post by nickik »

cabalamat wrote: post #568

> What culture do Germans, Greeks, Latvians, Bulgarians, Fins, and Spaniards share? The one that used to be called the Roman Empire, then Christendom, and is now called Western Civilisation. It is also arguably the greatest achievement of the human species.

The Roman Empire had no cultural identity. People in Gaul had nothing in common with people in Egypt. The most Roman did is spread some Roman values to the elites but even that was often very thin.

Christendom is totally divided with constant wars. The values are not uniform and christen philosophy was never particularly great. Rejection of most of those values defines modernity.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#737

Post by airesQ »

ziyadparekh wrote: post #190

What does mean for the US economy in terms of exports to the UK and larger EU countries? The pound drops sharply (~15%). The Euro down to $1.08. Does this mean that a stronger dollar will negatively impact US exports?

It means that we are going the hear to phrase "strong currency headwinds" in all earnings conference calls for the foreseeable future.

And overseas sales will probably go down.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#738

Post by humanrebar »

slg wrote: post #198

I think this should be a wake up call for those of us who are American. Populist movements that rely heavily on anger, fear, and anti-immigration rhetoric can still be effective in western democracies even if a large majority of experts think it shouldn't and won't happen. This is the first time I have legitimately thought we might end up with a Trump presidency.

> I think this should be a wake up call for those of us who are American.

I'm confused. U.S. politics over the last decade have been dominated by populist pushes on all sides of all aisles: Tea Party, Occupy, Trump, Sanders, even Obama ran on 'change' had minimal 'insider' credentials when he was elected.

> Populist movements that rely heavily on anger, fear, and anti-immigration rhetoric

Substitute 'anti-immigration' with 'anti-someone' and you basically have the case for most reform these days. The reaction to the Orlando shooting has basically been this, right? Anger? Check. Fear? Check? Pick an enemy? You have three or four to choose from: Muslims, gun nuts, homophobes.

I think we need to be more self-reflective and (socially) self-policing than tutting at all the other people out there.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#740

Post by mk89 »

Although I do understand a lot of comments about how sad and bad it is for Europe and for growth of this European identity, I am also of the idea that if a country doesn't want to stay, well, don't. I am alright, it means that Europe will have more decision-making power. It was a pain in the ass every once in a while to assist to UK's requests and threatens. We can focus now on how to make a better Europe. And things will move - very slowly, but they will. That's how history is, after all.

Ah, just saying: the amount of refugees / people requesting asylum to UK is way less than in Germany/Hungary/Sweden just to mention some. This was just a populist move/slogan.

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