This is cruel. This is stupid. But more broadly important to this group, this will continue to push skilled workers out of the US and into friendlier countries. It will continue to erode our soft power since countries will have fewer economic ties with the US and fewer personal ties to the US. There are no redeeming aspects to this that I can see. This is a bad move in the short term and the long term.
U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications
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Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications
#722So for those that don't know, it's quite common for a visa renewal to be required to leave the country. Depending on the visa, you might have to do this every year. So just imagine, having a normal job in the US and you're asked to leave to renew your visa and this stuff happens. That's no more appointment, not even a new date and you're now very likely unable to work and possibly can't even enter the country to get…
There is no human right to have a US visa interview; everything is a privilege that can be withdrawn.
Agreed. People seem to hold views that getting visas to the US is a human right.
It’s no fun, but these are adults (and often very privileged adults) that decided to move to a new country for more upside at the cost of no residency.
Conflating this with “inhumane” is just a basic misunderstanding of immigration and the contract these people signed up for.
Very uncomfortable, yet a risk these people took, and hopefully a conscious one.
Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications
#723Earlier quoted context omitted.
(a) The WSJ article is talking about "immigrant visas" a.k.a. green cards, not H1-Bs. (b) Even if we are talking about H1-Bs, it takes someone in India 10-15 years of waiting in line to get a green card. If someone were to buy a house in the interim, it doesn't seem so irrational to me. Its easy to blame the victim and say they should have known.
(a) I responded to OP's comment about H1-Bs, not the article itself. Even then, presumably, they paused processing new visa and the people that have already obtained them may continue to stay. If they fail to renew GC during this time, I agree that is a dark issue. (b) If I enter China on a temporary work permit visa, with a 15 year plan to obtain Chinese citizenship, no one will have sympathy for me if that plan is…
> If I enter China on a temporary work permit visa, with a 15 year plan to obtain Chinese citizenship, no one will have sympathy for me if that plan is interrupted
I would have sympathy for you if it was interrupted by suddenly changing the requirements through no action of your own.
Like, if you commit a crime, are a belligerent drunk, or whatever and they don't renew your visa over that, I have no sympathy.
If you're unable to secure employment for an extended period of time, and they don't renew your visa, I also have less sympathy since that's part of the bargain you knew going in.
If you play by the rules, but they reject a visa renewal for a reason like "we have too many immigrants from $x country, so we're rejecting y% of renewals" , well that's legally within the government's rights to do, but I'll have sympathy for you and think that you're morally in the right and China's failing its duty to its foreign residents.
Likewise, this US one is a case of capricious rejection, the US government is not holding up its end of the deal you both thought you were agreeing to. Like, the deal with a work visa, even if it's not permanent, is "if you follow the rules and keep good steady employment, you can live here, but yes it's conditional on the work thing".
I have sympathy for this hypothetical you, and also I have sympathy for those holding american visas who are impacted.
Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications
#724So for those that don't know, it's quite common for a visa renewal to be required to leave the country. Depending on the visa, you might have to do this every year. So just imagine, having a normal job in the US and you're asked to leave to renew your visa and this stuff happens. That's no more appointment, not even a new date and you're now very likely unable to work and possibly can't even enter the country to get…
Not trying to make a political point at all and perhaps a controversial take. But, it’s specifically and maybe implicitly by design. Meaning they made this way precisely so you have to reapply so they can change their mind or block you out later. Nothing about getting a visa is permanent and you’re fully at risk when you move here with that type of status. If you evaluate the situation that’s always been the case.
Yes, but that should be on a case by case basis. Blocking everybody is just an ideologically stupid choice, besides being inhumane.
Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications
#725[deleted]
Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications
#726Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thank you for posting. I'm being sincere. I think it is helpful to remind folk that these policies are not universally hated. Indeed a majority of voters voted specifically for them, and they were explicitly laid out. This is democracy in action. The majority (of those who care enough at all) get to rule over the minority (and the apathetic). Obviously not all actions will be universally loved, but no govt action can…
> This is democracy in action. The majority (of those who care enough at all) get to rule over the minority (and the apathetic). I've always been confused about how "democracy" is good, but "tyranny of the majority" is bad.
Well, for one you're not supposed to use a majority vote to abolish democracy, or mess with unalienable rights. You can think of it as "democracy with precommitment".
Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications
#727My company has a H-1B guy that travelled home to India a few months ago and since then can't come back because the next date he can get with the US embassy is next year. Seems he may get stuck even longer... I am to some degree on board with keeping a closer eye on immigration, but the way the current administration does it feels intentionally cruel. The guy at my company has a house, wife, and kids in the US; his vi…
I'm an American that lives abroad. I have first-hand experience how other countries treat 'immigrants'. H1B is a temporary non-immigrant visa. I could never imagine myself buying a home in a country where I don't have permanent access to that real estate. I am not opposed to voting to prevent non-PRs from owning real estate in order to keep housing prices lower for residents and prevent non-immigrants from shooting t…
> H1B is a temporary non-immigrant visa.
It’s a dual purpose visa. You are allowed to pursue immigration (i.e. a green card) while you have an H1B.
Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications
#728My company has a H-1B guy that travelled home to India a few months ago and since then can't come back because the next date he can get with the US embassy is next year. Seems he may get stuck even longer... I am to some degree on board with keeping a closer eye on immigration, but the way the current administration does it feels intentionally cruel. The guy at my company has a house, wife, and kids in the US; his vi…
An H-1B is a temporary non-immigrant visa. You're not supposed to rely on it to build a life in the US with no backup plan; that was never the intent of the law. However, successive administrations ignored the intent of the law, for so long that people began to rely on assurances that the law never promised. Now that the law is getting applied properly, those people are facing the consequences. It sucks for them, but…
H1B is explicitly a dual intent visa. You are allowed to pursue a green card while in the country on an H1B. It has been an accepted, valid path for a very long time now. If the government wishes to change that of course they can. But the humane approach would be to let those who have already started the process finish it.
Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications
#729Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The issue here is that, if you just left the country to do everything the country asked you, you are now in limbo. I feel like I’ve said it a few times but - Yes, exactly. The country wants you to leave and then get’s to decide if you can come back. That’s how it’s designed. On purpose. You’re approaching it from a perspective where you’re being asked to leave and your reentry is a right. It’s not. They never said,…
> That’s how it’s designed. On purpose. The cruelty is the point. (The UK system requires initial applications from overseas but I believe doesn't require you to leave for renewals)
Not at the moment, but the result of the current UK system has been huge uncontrolled levels of immigration leading to deep public resentment, so that may change in the future
Re: U.S. State Department pauses immigrant visa applications
#730Earlier quoted context omitted.
The leaving part is not the issue, as you try to immigrate into a country you're subject to the rules that country sets. You're always free to not immigrate into that country (this is not about asylum). The issue here is that, if you just left the country to do everything the country asked you, you are now in limbo. For how long? No one can tell. Does this mean you lose your job? Maybe. And when you decide it's no lo…
Technically you should be taking your stuff with you when you leave the country, and not assume you will just be allowed back in. If anything, there are services that can deliver your stuff back to you, so this is not the big deal it seems to be.
oh yea, let me just uproot myself because immigration took too long and my company didn't want to wait.
I'll just cancel my rental agreement, move my furniture across continents, cancel my other subscriptions, oh wait that's got a few month notice period so I'll have to pay up for months I don't need anymore, let alone all the friendships and social connections I made that I never got to say a proper goodbye to.
This is extremely unappealing to skilled workers, and the loss of trust will extend past this current administration, if all it takes is one idiot in office to upend your life, you can't trust that country and its people anymore.