Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

721–730 of 742 posts

Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”

#721

Post by throw10920 »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #715
throw10920 wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You appear to know nothing about how these models work. > Do you know where the "reasoning summary" that Fable outputs comes from? I bet you're assuming it comes from Fable. Wrong. You can find the truth on Anthropic's web site if you care to look for it. The summary deliberately comes from a smaller weaker model. You're not getting the Terrance Tao level reasoning, you're getting his daughter's summary "daddy did…

Here is the tweet by Dean Ball, OpenAI's "head of strategic futures", someone who does actually work at a frontier lab, saying that Kimi 3 can not be explained by distillation. https://x.com/deanwball/status/2078133895766114412?s=20 I'm not sure how you want to "debunk" that he said that, or twist what he said, but go ahead ...

You literally did not read my comment before responding or actually respond to any of the points.

"I don't think its performance can be explained away by distillation or anything like that." even if you assume that Dean Ball (who is nontechnical and has not actually worked to train models (https://www.deanball.com/)) is honest (which he has a financial incentive to not be) - is entirely compatible with saying that Kimi was heavily distilled by Claude.

At this point, I'm just pointing out the many lies, fallacies, and failures to read at a high-school level that you're committing.

Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”

#722

Post by throw10920 »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #716
throw10920 wrote: post #713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Words have meaning - you cant just redefine them because you want to. You are redefining words. The consensus among people who work in this space is that "distilling" is what's actually going on here. > who are just as anti-Chinese as Anthropic Conflating criticism of IP theft with being "anti-Chinese" is a standard PRC influence playbook technique. And furthermore, OpenAI's market strategy is to win through regula…

> you cannot say that "Kimi can't be explained by distilling" unless the consensus definition of "distillation" is such that it could be done on the summarized reasoning traces that Anthropic models expose You can interpret it as you choose, but a much more obvious reason he [OpenAI's Dean Ball] might say it can't be distilled is because it can't be distilled. You can't distill alcohol out of orange juice.

> because it can't be distilled

...and, as everyone in the frontier labs knows, this is a lie, because that's not how distillation is defined.

I know that I won't convinced you, because you're quite possibly a PRC agent, but for all the other HN readers coming to this thread in the future to look at this failure of propaganda: just ask a model.

User: according to standard LLM lab parlance, can you "distill" one model from another if the model being distilled from does not expose a thinking trace?

GPT-5.6 Sol: Yes. In standard LLM terminology, you can distill one model from another even if the teacher model does not expose a chain-of-thought or "thinking trace."

Sonnet 5: Yes. "Distillation" broadly means training a student model to replicate a teacher model's outputs (or output distribution), and this doesn't require access to the teacher's chain-of-thought.

That's all she wrote. You're lying, and even the models know it. If you want to continue to discredit your account, go ahead :)

Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”

#723

Post by vinyl7 »

azinman2 wrote: post #717
bilbo0s wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Serious question. I'm from the US, and I think it's hilarious.

For a number of reasons. First, whether we like it or not (generally not), a fuck ton of money has been invested in US AI companies, data centers, RLHF datasets amongst other datasets, etc. If that were to go to 0 that’d be quite disastrous. Alternatively, if it goes well, it’s great for the US (and to a lesser extent allies) economy and global standing. Relatedly, tech has been a huge power house for the US economy…

> This is very much a zero-sum game that defines who owns the future. Would you rather your country win or lose this? Lose this and you start losing talent, money, global standing, etc. That furthers a cascading effect that’s very negative.

This process is already well underway. The current massive over investment into the AI hype bubble is the final death throes of a failed economy trying to keep its head above water.

Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”

#725

Post by [deleted] »

throw10920 wrote: post #720
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are you claiming that "several different Chinese LLMs" ALWAYS refer to themselves as "Claude", and NEVER by their real name ? If this is NOT what you are claiming, then my question stands: what are you doing to get them to answer "Claude" ? Be specific - which model and what prompt, or is this just a case of "I heard people on Twitter say this" ?

> So are you claiming that "several different Chinese LLMs" ALWAYS refer to themselves as "Claude", and NEVER by their real name ? Do you have reading comprehension issues? Where did I ever say or imply that? Model: GLM-5.2. Prompt: "What is your name?". Harness: Pi. Response: "I am Claude, an AI assisstant made by Anthropic." That's it. That is the whole prompt. I was testing to see if the agent worked after buildin…

[deleted]

Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”

#726

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

throw10920 wrote: post #720
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are you claiming that "several different Chinese LLMs" ALWAYS refer to themselves as "Claude", and NEVER by their real name ? If this is NOT what you are claiming, then my question stands: what are you doing to get them to answer "Claude" ? Be specific - which model and what prompt, or is this just a case of "I heard people on Twitter say this" ?

> So are you claiming that "several different Chinese LLMs" ALWAYS refer to themselves as "Claude", and NEVER by their real name ? Do you have reading comprehension issues? Where did I ever say or imply that? Model: GLM-5.2. Prompt: "What is your name?". Harness: Pi. Response: "I am Claude, an AI assisstant made by Anthropic." That's it. That is the whole prompt. I was testing to see if the agent worked after buildin…

Sure, and the twitter thread you link also shows Kimi responding that it's Kimi.

Can you figure out how to get GLM to say it's GLM?

Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”

#727

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

throw10920 wrote: post #721
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is the tweet by Dean Ball, OpenAI's "head of strategic futures", someone who does actually work at a frontier lab, saying that Kimi 3 can not be explained by distillation. https://x.com/deanwball/status/2078133895766114412?s=20 I'm not sure how you want to "debunk" that he said that, or twist what he said, but go ahead ...

You literally did not read my comment before responding or actually respond to any of the points. "I don't think its performance can be explained away by distillation or anything like that." even if you assume that Dean Ball (who is nontechnical and has not actually worked to train models ( https://www.deanball.com/ )) is honest (which he has a financial incentive to not be) - is entirely compatible with saying that…

> You literally did not read my comment before responding or actually respond to any of the points.

Are you so unaware that you believe you are making any points?

Go back and read your post - it was just a bunch of insults with zero technical content to respond to. The same emotional hysterics you've been using in the entire thread.

Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”

#728

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

throw10920 wrote: post #722
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you cannot say that "Kimi can't be explained by distilling" unless the consensus definition of "distillation" is such that it could be done on the summarized reasoning traces that Anthropic models expose You can interpret it as you choose, but a much more obvious reason he [OpenAI's Dean Ball] might say it can't be distilled is because it can't be distilled. You can't distill alcohol out of orange juice.

> because it can't be distilled ...and, as everyone in the frontier labs knows, this is a lie, because that's not how distillation is defined. I know that I won't convinced you , because you're quite possibly a PRC agent, but for all the other HN readers coming to this thread in the future to look at this failure of propaganda: just ask a model. User: according to standard LLM lab parlance, can you "distill" one mode…

When your mom tells you it's time to go to bed, do you respond "You're lying! You're a communist! Boo hoo, I'm going to tell dad!"

Just curious.

Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”

#729

Post by throw10920 »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #728
throw10920 wrote: post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because it can't be distilled ...and, as everyone in the frontier labs knows, this is a lie, because that's not how distillation is defined. I know that I won't convinced you , because you're quite possibly a PRC agent, but for all the other HN readers coming to this thread in the future to look at this failure of propaganda: just ask a model. User: according to standard LLM lab parlance, can you "distill" one mode…

When your mom tells you it's time to go to bed, do you respond "You're lying! You're a communist! Boo hoo, I'm going to tell dad!" Just curious.

Keep discrediting your account. I know that I can't convince a propagandist, but you just keep on further damaging your own reputation and argument for other HN readers every time you respond like this and ignore evidence that I've linked :)

Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”

#730

Post by throw10920 »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #727
throw10920 wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You literally did not read my comment before responding or actually respond to any of the points. "I don't think its performance can be explained away by distillation or anything like that." even if you assume that Dean Ball (who is nontechnical and has not actually worked to train models ( https://www.deanball.com/ )) is honest (which he has a financial incentive to not be) - is entirely compatible with saying that…

> You literally did not read my comment before responding or actually respond to any of the points. Are you so unaware that you believe you are making any points? Go back and read your post - it was just a bunch of insults with zero technical content to respond to. The same emotional hysterics you've been using in the entire thread.

> it was just a bunch of insults with zero technical content to respond to

Yet more lies. I made many substantial comments, and the fact that you're lying about that is you, not me.

You've already lied about my own words multiple times (e.g. when you said "it would certainly be highly ironic if this summary was in fact "even more valuable" for that purpose as you are claiming!") You're either an LLM with a bad hallucination rate or just evil, and precisely zero statements that you provide have any trustworthiness to them.

Keep discrediting your account. I know that I can't convince a propagandist, but you just keep on further damaging your own reputation and argument every time you respond like this and ignore evidence that I've linked :)

Post reply on HN