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Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

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Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#721

Post by recursive »

customguy wrote: post #714
recursive wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard for me to imagine how fine motor control applies to cursive in a way that doesn't apply to block writing.

One kid in my school didn't write cursive, but wrote block letters so beautifully, it looked near printed. And he was probably faster than most. He also played the piano since young age and is a professional pianist now, so yeah :) So I would totally put it on the same level, theoretically. That is, you can write block letters with just as much skill and care as you can cursive, I think. Just like you can write cursi…

I'm definitely not a pro, but I've been actively playing piano for forty years now for whatever that might be worth.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#723

Post by subarctic »

tedd4u wrote: post #695
Royce-CMR wrote: post #666

I was home schooled - so my perspective of education is at best, unique. I finished a dual major undergrad at 18, got an MBA at 21. Based on my own experiences and those of people I’ve watched, I have three points. Sample size of 1 and all that; but it’s a lowkey passion topic for me. - The argument that AI is “the next calculator” and education testing and overall methods need to adapt, is true. - The distance betwe…

I've heard students react this way to seeing problems on exams that are not strictly of the types taught in class or in previously-assigned homework. "It's not fair! The teacher never showed us how to do problems like that!" This kind of thing was expected and assumed when I was in secondary school, that there would be combining of some concepts from the unit into a single problem. Very worried that there's both a cu…

I kind of agree with that perspective, if you're testing them on something in the exam, why isn't the course material teaching it to them? After all you're paying a lot of money for tuition. I went to a good university where the assignments were hard, but as long as you did them the final exam ended up being easy without having to study for them because you already learned everything.

But i also did a semester abroad at a German university and i found there was a different philosophy there where the assignments don't teach you much, and everyone skips class and then studies really hard for the final exam which is often 100% of your grade

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#724

Post by subarctic »

Ekaros wrote: post #539
linzhangrun wrote: post #314

AI has drastically reduced the cost and concealment for cheating, even in offline exams. A single person can easily do that using glasses with a micro-camera & rice-sized earbuds, and almost impossible to be caught.

Only solution for that is permanent record. No "youthful indiscretion". You have taken cheating devices to test. You are permanently and for life out. All your past degrees are invalidated on the spot. There is central sex offender style registry. You are required to inform about your status in every future interaction.

Wow that sounds really dystopic... hope your joking

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#725

Post by Arainach »

userbinator wrote: post #718
Arainach wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as "filtering" in academics. You don't get to kick out the students who didn't do well on the multiple choice and only proceed with the ones who scored highly.

WTF. OK, clearly you're contributing to the problem too. Yes, there is such a thing as passing and failing, regardless what your ideology has brainwashed you to believe.

You don't pass and fail in the middle of the course, so there is no "filter".

You can't give someone a multiple choice test and then give a written test to only those who passed it, except at the granularity of an entire course.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#726

Post by jhbadger »

hasteg wrote: post #679
jhbadger wrote: post #663

Even before AI, take home exams were a bad idea. In theory students were supposed to promise to work alone and not share work but in practice many people, especially those taking the class with friends, worked together.

When I was studying my CS degree (2018-2022) it was actually encouraged to work together outside of classes with fellow students. We had a CS discord run by the school (or maybe volunteers from the school? I dunno) with diff channels for different classes. I also worked a ton on studying with my friend who was in a lot of the same classes as me. I think that was insanely helpful, especially for a lot of the theory he…

I'm not against students working together -- as you note in some classes it is encouraged and often group projects are assigned. But this is different from the idea of a "take home exam" where students are supposed to work alone on the honor system, which is naive at best from the professor.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#727

Post by smugma »

“This semester, probably because of the new evaluation system, 86 students signed up for the class"

"Of the 89 students who did the midterm exam, only 59 showed up for the final one. And of the 27 who did not show up"

59+27=86

Maybe the article was written with AI that doesn't check its math.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#728

Post by npstr »

nekusar wrote: post #294
npstr wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems easy to counter all of this. I study at a German remote university, and they require, next to the front camera, a second camera to record the screen + hands and arms of the student while taking exams, and before the exam starts a complete video of the room, below desk areas, ears, etc. I don't see an angle how to reliably cheat in such conditions, and have seen nothing mentioned by any other student. So I would…

In-ear Bluetooth earbud with TTS. There's also TI-84 mods that add esp32 and can hook up an LLM. There's always a defeat.

ears have to be shown to camera to confirm no devices inside

own calculator not allowed, there is one provided by the software that must be used

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#729

Post by jnwatson »

danaris wrote: post #709
jnwatson wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. That's exactly what college is. If you don't have the resources to effectively individually evaluate a student's output, you shouldn't hold a graded class.

Then let me spell it out for you, since you seem to be unaware: There are many, many colleges that have no grad students. Period. They are undergraduate colleges . Expecting any college or university to just be able to scale up the amount of manpower required to grade their classes/exams by a large multiple is absurdly unrealistic. I assure you that most existing colleges do have plenty of resources to effectively ev…

These colleges certainly have English, Philosophy, Art, and History classes, all of which require papers to be submitted and the exams consist of essay questions.

That Computer Science is somehow a privileged subject where the exam grading must be automated is elitism of the highest degree.

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