Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

latimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

721–730 of 925 posts

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#721

Post by plaguuuuuu »

conartist6 wrote: post #705
borski wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that just like students, teachers are not all created equal. My 3rd grade teacher wanted to fail me for “discipline” problems. In reality, she simply didn’t like me; I had no discipline complaints in other years. I had undiagnosed ADHD and was gifted. She did not know how to deal with that, and actively disliked me. Activist teachers are also a thing.

I'm not completely convinced that "ADHD" isn't just the natural state of kids who are bored most of the time.

No offense but if you haven't done enough research to actually have a studied opinion, maaaaybe you should avoid posting an inane comment about it.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#723

Post by Ifkaluva »

bearjaws wrote: post #149
kleiba2 wrote: post #28

I used to teach high school math. There was a big push for doing everything digitally. And admittedly, for some topics the use of technology in the classroom or at home can really be a benefit, for instance visualizations or interactive exercises. But having a digital device in class was the number one cause of distraction every time. For a lot of things, good old blackboards are just fine as are pen + paper exercise…

I'm always torn on this, I learned a lot of algebra, stats and calc from actually writing TI-Basic programs in my calculator. I was deeply interested in programming since the age of 11, so it felt very natural to translate the formulas and concepts to code. Ultimately I am sure the majority of students learn better writing it out by hand.

I think TI calculators are not a source of distractions the way a phone or a laptop is

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#724

Post by derwiki »

drivebyhooting wrote: post #680
naet wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Oakland with a three year old and I'm looking to either move to a better school district or pay for an expensive private school. I used to be a substitute teacher for the Oakland unified school district and I straight up refuse to send my son there. I have seen firsthand that these kids are not being taught well and the shortcomings compound year over year until you end with high school level students that are…

Private schools are not all created equal. And the admissions gauntlet can be a special kind of hell.

Can you speak more to the gauntlet? Had a bunch of friends go private in SF this year and other than “play date interviews” it seemed like a breeze?

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#725

Post by derwiki »

trunnell wrote: post #566
niwtsol wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate on the reasoning they "strongly discourage math outside of school"? I'm genuinely curious how that would be a stance they take.

We've heard: - It can make kids "overconfident when they see material they think they already know, so they end up not engaging." - Some programs, particularly RSM, are criticized for valuing speed over depth. Current culture for K-8 math teachers is the opposite, they value depth over speed. Left unsaid: - It can make the teacher's job harder when the class has a wide span of abilities. - Current teaching culture is…

Maybe part of it is that math is objective and writing is subjective? A math teacher could be called out by a 13 yo for “being wrong” but for an English teacher, what is “wrong”?

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#726

Post by isityettime »

> professors are often teaching middle school math to incoming students.

Even after admissions, why aren't they using placement tests and prerequisites to handle this? Also why would you try to teach someone middle school math during a STEM class in college instead of just... urging them to drop the class and letting their grades reflect their competency if they choose to stay?

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#727

Post by hodgesrm »

butvacuum wrote: post #702
tnecniv wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That happened to me in high school. I was in "advanced" freshman bio. Teacher gave me a B. When my parents inquired during a parent-teacher conference, she said I looked like I wasn't paying attention. Fast forward ten years and the therapist I was seeing for seemingly unrelated reasons diagnoses me with ADHD...

I had a teacher the exact opposite. Completely ruthless about you doing the work, but patient and kind as long as it got done- And very pleasent.

That was my 8th & 9th grade Latin teacher. Failure was not an option. I can still decline nouns and demonstratives 50 years later.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#728

Post by __turbobrew__ »

retrac wrote: post #252
hedora wrote: post #53

This doesn't surprise me at all. From what I can tell, California's education system has moved from "equality" (which I would define as providing similar opportunities to all the kids) to focusing on "equity" (which I think they define as dictating the same outcome for all kids). To get an idea of how off the rails this has gotten, go read up on their statements trying to justify banning high school calculus. They ex…

It's so strange to see this happen in the USA when our education system up here in Canada has essentially the same set of cultural and social values and there's plenty to gripe about but we haven't had the 'levelling' thing. There have been attempts but it has strongly resisted by parents. [1] I think there may be more realization up here that "gifted education" is a type of "special" education, in the same way remed…

In British Columbia there is no special ed and there is no gifted program. It is a total train wreck. After the non-verbal autistic causes everyone to leave the classroom for the 5th time that day it gets really old (I’m not making this up).

I was a terrible student until high school — where I could start entering into college classes and/or skip classes — because the pace was too slow and I got bored and caused issues. Having the opportunity to do advanced classes was a huge gift for me and my peers I no longer disrupted.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#729

Post by isityettime »

jancsika wrote: post #111
john_strinlai wrote: post #3

> “We now observe preparation gaps so severe that instructors must reteach middle-school mathematics while simultaneously teaching the material students need for sciences, engineering, economics, and other quantitatively demanding fields,” they warned. i dont understand why the teachers would go out of their way to reteach middle-school math. i teach. my courses have prerequisites. if a student somehow makes it into…

> i dont understand why the teachers would go out of their way to reteach middle-school math. "gaps" implies a critical mass of students who require middle-school math reteaching. > i teach. If you've taught for a non-trivial amount of time, you did one of the following with that class: * graded on a curve so you don't fail half the class * failed half the class, and got suspended (pours one out for my compsci profes…

I had a professor who made sure to give an early exam before the no-penalty drop date, which helps a lot of that test's outcome is predictive of success in the rest of the class. Then people just drop out early if they're going to fail.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#730

Post by ang_cire »

isityettime wrote: post #726

> professors are often teaching middle school math to incoming students. Even after admissions, why aren't they using placement tests and prerequisites to handle this? Also why would you try to teach someone middle school math during a STEM class in college instead of just... urging them to drop the class and letting their grades reflect their competency if they choose to stay?

I think because if their graduation requires them to pass that course (and it's a freshman-level course), the university is basically facing a choice of, "teach them this thing", "change graduation requirements", or "either kick the kids out or willfully let them waste 4 years just to not be able to graduate".

Both the latter 2 are big choices for a university administration to make, so it's much easier to ask the professors to make up the difference. That's why it's the faculty and not the admin demanding this; they know what the admins are asking them to do is impossible.

Post reply on HN