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Your phone is about to stop being yours

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Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#721

Post by fsflover »

gonzalohm wrote: post #671
Anonyneko wrote: post #133

I've resigned to the fact that I'll need to use two phones, one with locked down Android/iOS for banking applications and government services (those require strong bank ID around these parts), another with some kind of a Linux or unlocked Android for literally everything else. Oh well, such is life, most people don't care enough about this to pressure Google/Apple/banks/governments into yielding. A big reason why a n…

Is Linux for phones a thing? Or are you referring to GrapheneOS or LineageOS?

GNU/Linux phones exist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Librem_5 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinephone

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#722

Post by PurpleRamen »

ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #698
brookst wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK, not really a fan of redefining computer to make a rhetorical point. It seems counter-productive to tell people the computing device they think as a computer isn’t really a computer. It’s like saying my car isn’t really a car because I can’t adjust spark timing. Someone could make that semantic argument but it’s hard to imagine anyone would care.

Point taken. But I think we can say that smartphones and tablets are definitely not "general-purpose computers" because they are not programmable, at least not freely so.

But they are programmable, very freely even. Whether you can start any desired program on the device is the crucial point. Having gates, doesn't influence what's inside the gates.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#723

Post by PurpleRamen »

sudb wrote: post #689
modo_mario wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It’s like saying my car isn’t really a car because I can’t adjust spark timing. What if it only drives along select predetermined monetised routes?

I think we call those buses, usually!

No, a Bus is a big car with more space for passengers. The Route has no relation to the naming.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#724

Post by trashb »

brookst wrote: post #667
ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #583

Someone here on HN used the term "cloud terminal" for modern electronic devices, and I think that is a very fitting name for phones and tablets. They are definitely not computers because they do not actually give the user access to general purpose computing in the sense that the users can control exactly what computations the device is going to execute. They are just terminals whose production costs we cover but whic…

IDK, not really a fan of redefining computer to make a rhetorical point. It seems counter-productive to tell people the computing device they think as a computer isn’t really a computer. It’s like saying my car isn’t really a car because I can’t adjust spark timing. Someone could make that semantic argument but it’s hard to imagine anyone would care.

Adjusting the spark timing is more a right to repair issue. If you replace the screen of your phone with one of a working phone do you expect it to work or do you need the approval from a licensed apple technician?

A taxi is still a car but we use a different word to differentiate the mode of operation. The difference in language infers different usage of the same machine.

Therefore going by car is understood as something different then going by taxi. In relation to this issue, it's like you rented a car but you get a taxi instead (selected operator controls the vehicle instead of you). Most people would not be pleased.

The problem being that phone or tablet is understood to be similar to computer while really they are not. So perhaps a different term to highlight this difference is not strange or counter-productive. Do you call your "smart tv" a computer in daily conversation?

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#725

Post by [deleted] »

jMyles wrote: post #488
john_strinlai wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The openness, freedom, customizability and accessibility (money wise) were the tenets that differentiated Android from Apple devices. i have never heard someone outside of tech circles (e.g. HN) mention openness, freedom, or customization, even as a passing comment. they use a phone to access mainstream apps (youtube, instagram, reddit, maybe their bank) and text/call. mention "apk" or "fdroid" and their eyes start…

> i have never heard someone outside of tech circles (e.g. HN) mention openness, freedom, or customization, even as a passing comment. And how do you qualify "(e.g. HN)" for this purpose? Places where people value openness? These feels like a no-true-scotsman.

[deleted]

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#726

Post by trashb »

effdee wrote: post #711
ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #583

Someone here on HN used the term "cloud terminal" for modern electronic devices, and I think that is a very fitting name for phones and tablets. They are definitely not computers because they do not actually give the user access to general purpose computing in the sense that the users can control exactly what computations the device is going to execute. They are just terminals whose production costs we cover but whic…

> they do not actually give the user access to general purpose computing in the sense that the users can control exactly what computations the device is going to execute What prevents the creation of an App that allows one to do exactly that?

Google approval policy may prevent that now or retroactively.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#728

Post by trashb »

Xunjin wrote: post #16

Let me play out a scenario, imagine to use a Desktop Hardware like a complete built rig, you would need a specific OS like Windows 11 and you could not run Linux on it, just because it's a vendor lock-in. Why is this acceptable for phones but would not for the case above? I know a lot of people don't care, and that's ok, but we should root for an open choice for the users.

I think historically it has existed like this due to regulation regarding radio sending equipment and the integration between the platform (CPU) and modem in phones.

Due to this the equipment manufacturers where never incentivized to have a "open" ecosystem for the CPU+modem combo. That's why there is no OS war on a per device basis, most phones supports 1 OS officially.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#729

Post by trashb »

blurrybird wrote: post #657
Xunjin wrote: post #16

Let me play out a scenario, imagine to use a Desktop Hardware like a complete built rig, you would need a specific OS like Windows 11 and you could not run Linux on it, just because it's a vendor lock-in. Why is this acceptable for phones but would not for the case above? I know a lot of people don't care, and that's ok, but we should root for an open choice for the users.

So you mean, Macs and macOS? All modern devices are appliances, not computers. They perform the specific functions that they were programmed to perform, and do not allow arbitrary execution of calculations on the underlying hardware. Many people, mostly folks who adopt the Apple ecosystem, see this as a positive thing that allows them to delegate undifferentiated decisions on security and ways of working to the vendo…

all appliances used to come with schematics and repair manuals, there was no prevention of modification or repair. We're talking cars, washing machines, dryers, radios etc.

Separate from computers and phones locking down devices is a much wider issue, usually it is only implemented to reduce liability of the manufacturer or to allow for planned obsolescence.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#730

Post by Steltek »

brookst wrote: post #667
ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #583

Someone here on HN used the term "cloud terminal" for modern electronic devices, and I think that is a very fitting name for phones and tablets. They are definitely not computers because they do not actually give the user access to general purpose computing in the sense that the users can control exactly what computations the device is going to execute. They are just terminals whose production costs we cover but whic…

IDK, not really a fan of redefining computer to make a rhetorical point. It seems counter-productive to tell people the computing device they think as a computer isn’t really a computer. It’s like saying my car isn’t really a car because I can’t adjust spark timing. Someone could make that semantic argument but it’s hard to imagine anyone would care.

How about instead: is an e-bike a bicycle? Is it a motorcycle?

The apparent user experience between a computer and a mobile are markedly different - especially if you were a Windows user circa 10 years ago. If you were a Windows user in the 90's to 00's, it's nearly unrecognizable in how much ownership you feel over your own device.

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