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Alberta startup sells no-tech tractors for half price

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Re: Alberta startup sells no-tech tractors for half price

#721

Post by simplyluke »

Jedd wrote: post #660
simplyluke wrote: post #526

Late to the party here, so I don't expect this to get a lot of traction, but I'd like to point out that part of the reason this hasn't existed until recently as an option in the US is because it's functionally illegal for it to exist. > The 12-valve Cummins is arguably the most widely understood diesel engine in North America. Every independent shop, every shade-tree mechanic with a set of wrenches, every farmer who…

> US is because it's functionally illegal for it to exist. This feels like one of those 'burying the lede' situations. Can you explain what's functionally illegal (and I admit that I'm mildly curious about the distinction of functional illegality and non-functional illegality) about this existing? I'm as breathless as you are, after reading that second paragraph, but I nonetheless remain ignorant about the nuances of…

Basically every diesel engine after the early 2010s needed to have several emissions systems (EGR, DPF + DEF). You can do some reading on them if you're curious, but they basically all reduce reliability, efficiency (DPFs choke exhaust, and airflow is critical to a diesel running well), and power from the same engine without them.

In terms of legality, it means manufactures need to include all of those systems and their associated complexity, but the way that this startup is getting around it is using engines that were built before those requirements and are thus grandfathered into not needing them.

Also on the legal side, there's a thriving black market of mechanics who are willing to rip all those systems out of diesel engines. It's not uncommon to see double-digit percent increases in both power and fuel economy after it's done. The EPA has prosecuted a few cases against shops and parts suppliers for those "diesel deletes"

Re: Alberta startup sells no-tech tractors for half price

#722

Post by slantedview »

abdjdoeke wrote: post #720
adev_ wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Up until a year ago I was regularly using a Massy Fergusson 135 There is a tradition in several European countries named Affouage : If you live in a rural area, you can get very cheap (or even free) wood at the condition that you go to cut it yourself in the close-by forest. Many many people who are doing this practice are still using today Massy Fergusson 135, Renault R98/461, Ford 3000-4000 series, SOMECA or simi…

I would like this in a new car company. Low tech, simple to operate, repair, etc. the tech is what goes out of style and I don’t know how (or don’t care) to use half of tech cars have to offer aside from the automatic safety stuff.

Sounds like the Slate truck.

Re: Alberta startup sells no-tech tractors for half price

#723

Post by abdjdoeke »

slantedview wrote: post #722
abdjdoeke wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like this in a new car company. Low tech, simple to operate, repair, etc. the tech is what goes out of style and I don’t know how (or don’t care) to use half of tech cars have to offer aside from the automatic safety stuff.

Sounds like the Slate truck.

Nice that looks pretty cool! Maybe once they become a real product I’ll look into it haha.

Re: Alberta startup sells no-tech tractors for half price

#724

Post by rootusrootus »

bakies wrote: post #430
flyinghamster wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing all the gigantic and very-high-priced Pavement Princess Pickups clogging dealer lots, it's plain that the auto industry in general didn't learn a damn thing. It's easy to point fingers in all directions, but it always ends up that we get the worst outcomes.

People are brainwashed into thinking a pickup truck is the only practical car even though it's the opposite. It's not just EPA regulations, it's what people want.

It’s not brainwashing, a modern four door pickup is the very definition of practical for most of the US. The only thing it doesn’t do well is park in tiny spots, which describes a fairly small fraction of the US.

Re: Alberta startup sells no-tech tractors for half price

#725

Post by wil421 »

abdjdoeke wrote: post #720
adev_ wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Up until a year ago I was regularly using a Massy Fergusson 135 There is a tradition in several European countries named Affouage : If you live in a rural area, you can get very cheap (or even free) wood at the condition that you go to cut it yourself in the close-by forest. Many many people who are doing this practice are still using today Massy Fergusson 135, Renault R98/461, Ford 3000-4000 series, SOMECA or simi…

I would like this in a new car company. Low tech, simple to operate, repair, etc. the tech is what goes out of style and I don’t know how (or don’t care) to use half of tech cars have to offer aside from the automatic safety stuff.

People put whatever engines they can find on old truck chassis. It’s up to you to do the swap. Most people do want to DIY anything on a car. Enthusiast based models usually don’t sell in high volume.

Re: Alberta startup sells no-tech tractors for half price

#726

Post by arthurjj »

arijun wrote: post #680
throwaway85825 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is cars got screens largely due to the backup camera mandate which was intended to be a safety feature. Governments are very bad at understanding unintended consequences.

The backup camera mandate is associated with a 78% (!) reduction in fatalities in children in backover incidents. That’s a pretty high bar to cross to prove that the camera is more harmful the it is helpful, especially since, as others have said, you don’t have to use the screen for anything else.

I was pretty curious as I have a kid who's not very aware about cars. That appears to be an extrapolation from a pretty biased source [1]. It's probably more honest to say "the aforementioned systems are expected to save 58 to 69 lives each year" after they are fully rolled out to the entire fleet.

That's not counting injuries or property damage, but it is still an already low number

[1] https://www.kidsandcars.org/news/backup-camera-mandate-linke...

[2] https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2014/04/07/2014-07...

Re: Alberta startup sells no-tech tractors for half price

#727

Post by infecto »

MandieD wrote: post #709
infecto wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My bet would be there will be a niche for these tractors at hobby farms but the reality is outside of niche goods and hobby farms, farming is about scale and the machines that companies like JD sell help a lot. Sure the tech is locked down but at the scale those players are running at it’s baked into the service contract to minimize downtime.

A niche called Mennonites in general and in particular, Amish in communities that are ok with motors, but not with fancy, fragile electronics.

Right those are niches like hobby farms. There is a market but it has a pretty distinct shape. The broader point was a machine like this is not changing farming.

Re: Alberta startup sells no-tech tractors for half price

#728

Post by kube-system »

bborud wrote: post #697
kube-system wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheap ones too -- aliexpress has them. But there's more to agtech than driving a tractor around, a lot of what these big integrated systems do (at the high end) is very data driven -- determining where and how to plant, irrigate, fertilize, etc. There's a lot of integration work beyond just making the tractor drive.

35 years in the tech industry has taught me one thing: incumbents that have been around for a long time are almost always more clueless and more full of shit than you think, what they do isn't as hard as they claim and you can probably do better given a fraction of the time they spent just because you don't have legacy systems to worry about and because technology and tooling has moved on. Incumbents thrive on the my…

The Pareto principle applies. For highly complex systems it’s easy to build most of what the incumbents have. It’s the last 20% where it is hard to catch up just because the incumbents have decades of a head start and have the momentum. And even more so here because it’s not just software. It’s very science and hardware heavy.

For farming, it’s even more tough because the market has a really uneven distribution. Usually the best place to tackle huge incumbents is in the midmarket. They’re big enough to need your automation, but they’re small enough to take a risk to save some money, and the features you haven’t built yet aren’t blockers for them.

But there’s basically no midmarket farming, all farms are pretty much either really big or really small.

Re: Alberta startup sells no-tech tractors for half price

#730

Post by _blk »

adamcharnock wrote: post #134

Up until a year ago I was regularly using a Massy Fergusson 135 [0] (Perkins Diesel version), made sometime in the 1970s. It was wonderful! So amazing to drive and use. Clunky and heavy, but you really really felt like you were using a machine. In low gears, if you put you foot down on the accelerator the engine would roar, and your speed would barely change! And there was no fancy technology in it at all. If I was i…

Thanks for sharing all those experiences and tech explanations in how tractor clutches work everyone. Great thread to read. I'm kinda surprised the OP made the HN tops but DIY anything seems to be experiencing a Renaissance. (Not too big a surprise in HN I suppose)
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