Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#721

Post by mgfist » Wed, Apr 08, 2026, 2:28 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #184

mgfist wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's got 9m people. The US has 30x the people and 250x the space. It's not comparable.

So why do we struggle to get the infrastructure to work in dense urban areas still? Or even just “not Wyoming”? Switzerland and California have the same population density. Why can’t CA build high speed rail?

For many reasons. Most of which have to do with government bureaucracy and incentives. HSR in California is thinly disguised jobs program with no real incentive or aim to actually build HSR.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#722

Post by bumby » Wed, Apr 08, 2026, 4:46 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #715

bumby wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chernow is more of a laity source than an academic one. Fun to read, but it’s not a strong source. He tends to over emphasize the efficiency side and neglect the logistical barriers to entry and many would consider Chernows thesis incomplete. If your claim is that someone needs to have 100% market to be anti-competitive, we’re talking past each other. I know HN can have relatively high levels of binary thinking, but…

SO had a significantly lower cost structure, it didn't need to lose money. The nuance is throughout the SO anti-trust trial, SO was losing market share. SO's main method of growing was to buy out competitors, and made them rich with SO stock.

The court case found SO used local aggressive price cutting until competitors were driven out. That’s why they were broken up. I don’t think there is court evidence whether they lost money (although there’s speculation) in those cases because that standard wasn’t established until later antitrust cases. But once competitors were gone SO raised prices. SO still meet the threshold for monopolistic operation.

Yes, SO had a lower cost structure in many cases. But efficiency is not the determining factor for antitrust behavior. That’s the chink in Chernows perspective: he focuses almost solely of efficiency argument and ignores the larger context.

And not to be snarky, but that’s the same pattern you take whether you defend Rockefeller, Musk, or any other business magnate. There’s a narrative you identify with and you’ll stick to it almost to the point of circular reasoning.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#723

Post by kulahan » Thu, Apr 09, 2026, 4:37 AM UTC

carefree-bob wrote: post #699

kulahan wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m simply saying it’s incorrect to assume that everything everywhere is as cheap as possible. This is true in MANY INDUSTRIES, but not everywhere, and it’s absolutely nothing like a rule. You, I think, are tying it into a larger discussion about monopolies, but I’m not sure that makes sense because if you’re a monopoly, you don’t have competitors to beat on price, so you again would not charge the least amount possi…

> I’m simply saying it’s incorrect to assume that everything everywhere is as cheap as possible. This is a non-sequitur. Please read the post and reply to what I wrote (or don't reply) - not to whatever ghosts are dancing in your head. I think the combination of you not understanding what I wrote, yet somehow getting triggered by it, and then launching on a debate with a interlocutor that exists only in your mind is…

lol, what other weird fantasies do you have about how I'm reacting? Relax buddy. I do not have to engage with your entire comment, I can comment on a specific part, or even just talk about something it reminds me of, as it turns out. If that's too much for you to handle, stop commenting? I dunno.

I really just didn't care much about most of what you had to say, because it was based entirely on an incorrect premise. I skipped like 80% of it.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#724

Post by xethos » Fri, Apr 10, 2026, 1:00 PM UTC

gnabgib wrote: post #266

xethos wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm running out my contract with TekSavvy (~$80 CAD for gigabit) before switching to Novus (~$60 CAD for 2.5), and my partner and I just switched to Fido (~$30 CAD for 80gig and international calls/SMS). Considering the geography and all the per-capita math (and pain), I don't think we're doing too bad as a country any more.

That last one is a phone plan.. not exactly apples to apples (it's good, but an 80GB/mo cap is rarely enough for home.. and nothing like a 2.5gbps internet plan).

Because grandparent (that I was replying to) stated "Mobile data is even worse". You're right that it doesn't compare to a 2.5G pipe, but that wasn't my point

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#725

Post by mft_ » Fri, Apr 10, 2026, 2:14 PM UTC

eqvinox wrote: post #559

ceejayoz wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't doubt there are differences. I doubt they're insurmountable. Again, because the Swiss aren't some genetically superior subspecies. Culture can be changed. I see Americans talk about how impossible universal healthcare is as if the rest of the developed world hasn't largely figured it out.

The healthcare system is actually one of the few things Switzerland isn't doing that well. It's somewhat "americanized", lots of "extra" insurances for random areas that will only accept you if you're healthy. Base insurance is regulated, has to accept all customers, and you're required to (pay for and) have it. The FR and UK systems are better IMHO. Just to be clear, the Swiss healthcare system is still very good .…

It might be (like many things in Switzerland) reassuringly expensive, but my original point was that on many objective metrics (e.g. longevity, avoidable mortality, cancer diagnosis and survival, waiting times, etc.) the Swiss healthcare system consistently achieves some of the best outcomes in the world.

The NHS (for example) costs less, and (depending on how you measure the value of health outcomes) might be more cost effective, but the outcomes aren't as good.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#726

Post by port11 » Sun, Apr 12, 2026, 8:17 AM UTC

vbernat wrote: post #284

France has 90% FTTH coverage in 2025, with 60% of households over 1 Gbps. One of the incumbents, Free (my employer), deployed P2P fibers in very dense areas but is switching to P2MP for economic reasons (and because this was not a competitive advantage). It's unclear to me if Switzerland plans to achieve this coverage with P2P. What looks great in Switzerland is not that each household has four dedicated fibers to th…

Belgium more closely follows the Swiss model — though with some duplication if you consider whatever Orange/Telenet is doing. And you know, fiber isn’t that well distributed.

Portugal is also not that different from the Swiss model. Fiber penetration is amazing, even in some rural communities like my grandmother‘s.

Could the Swiss secret be small-country-with-good-funding? Could this article be offering only one of the ways in which utilities can become good?