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Migrating to the EU

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Re: Migrating to the EU

#721

Post by deaux »

pjmlp wrote: post #711
_pdp_ wrote: post #37

Our company started migrating our tech stack from USA to EU. We are about 90% there with a few small dependencies that could be resolved but we have not yet tackled.

Including EU sponsored programming languages and OSes? This is something I think it is a blind spot we have and not big answer, because even if we take into account FOSS, ISO and ECMA languages, the biggest sponsors for those toolchains are US companies. It will take decades to go back to the cold war days, of hardware, programming languages and OSes with European origin.

> EU sponsored programming languages

Those really don't matter.

> OSes

If you're talking about "US sponsoring" of Linux distros, then that doesn't matter either. If you mean Android and iOS, then you're right.

There's a super simple heuristic here. Does China care? If not, it doesn't matter. China doesn't care about adopting a Chinese-made programming language instead of Python or Typescript or Rust, meaning control over that isn't important. They do care about OS, which is why they put effort into increasing market share of phones with no American OS.

Re: Migrating to the EU

#722

Post by gib444 »

carlosjobim wrote: post #718
gib444 wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you could enumerate with more detail exactly how Google Maps is unmatched and what features you need? You haven't said much so far. You also won't really acknowledge negatives of it so I think you are not being very objective. Yes public transport is a good one but only perhaps unmatched by breadth Citymapper is excellent for public transport. Google Maps relies on business owners updating details too, often ou…

There's plenty of negatives for Google Maps. None of those are deal-breakers, while the negatives of other apps are deal-breakers. Negatives of Google Maps: - Awful graphical interface - Bad performance - Ads - Offline maps could be better implemented Features where other apps fail, but Google Map works well: - Unable to zoom or pan map because of janky response. This core feature needs to be right, or the app is unu…

Fair enough. I don't think we are going to agree on much nor convince each other because:

- You want one app that works almost everywhere in the world and UX is paramount to you. Less privacy and mediocrity is fine

- I am happy to use more specific apps that excel at specific functions, and accept some lower performance/UX for the £0 I paid and £0 I paid in giving up my privacy (with the exception of Citymapper - I don't use it myself though. I figure out each city's public transport myself, or talk to staff).

We'll just go around in circles calling out the pluses/negatives of each app

There are absolutely good (enough) alternatives to Google Maps though, I won't budge on that.

edit: I'll also plug newly-discovered Gnome Maps on the desktop. It does walking/cycling/car/public transport routing too, though no idea how well. No satellite though. Also, Comaps has emerged as an Organic Maps fork due to some governance disagreements

Re: Migrating to the EU

#723

Post by pc86 »

gzread wrote: post #650
rafram wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shouting FIRE in a full venue "Crowded theater"? In any case, yes, that's a popular understanding of limits on free speech in the US, but it's actually been superseded twice - first by "clear and present danger," then by "inciting or producing imminent lawless action." These days, it's probably (I am not a lawyer) legal to yell "fire!" in a crowded theater under many circumstances. > Sadly, the recent developments…

> There are no laws preventing you from saying anything in the US, unless... Sounds like there are some of those laws. You covered them with "unless"

This is a common refrain from people in countries without freedom of speech, used to argue that the US doesn't AcKtUalLy have freedom of speech.

The idea that "freedom of speech" in the US is not philosophically and fundamentally different than "freedom of speech" in, for example, the UK or Germany, is not an opinion grounded in reality regardless of what legal minutiae you can point to.

Re: Migrating to the EU

#724

Post by Nifty3929 »

I do not feel that the EU is less likely to surveille me than anywhere else. The laws seem mostly geared toward protecting me from corporations - but those aren't the ones I mostly worry about.

The EU seems to be mandating surveillance by the government, which is a higher-order concern for me.

Re: Migrating to the EU

#725

Post by Aachen »

pelzatessa wrote: post #643
Aachen wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also based on your reply on a sibling thread, is this a legit question (you expect that there is a way but you're not sure how) or are you just waiting for someone to bite just so you can state your case about proving a negative?

Not sure which thread you're referring to, but yeah, it is a legit question. I genuinely wondered what made the OP state that it's proven that mullvad doesn't collect logs. While I don't think it's possible at all to prove that some software is running on a remote server, or that this software doesn't collect logs, some people try to find a way to do that, for example Signal claimed that one can verify code running o…

Fair enough. I would just interpret this as an exaggeration / way of speaking. In the end you always have to trust someone, be it Mullvad's reputation, be it an auditor, be it a hardware vendor

Good comparison about the SGX contact discovery though, although Signal could afaik use one of the known SGX bugs to get our data anyway, or collude with Intel who has the private keys, so you trust third parties there as well

Re: Migrating to the EU

#726

Post by jwr »

deepsun wrote: post #614
jwr wrote: post #584

I can recommend: * Hetzner.de for servers (I've been using their physical servers for many years now, incredible performance per € spent) * Fernand as your CRM, it's smooth and nice and so much better and faster than all the zendesks and freshdesks it's not even funny. ( https://getfernand.com/ ) * AISLER if you design electronics and need to make PCBs ( https://aisler.net/ )

Thanks, just a note that by "CRM" people typically think of Sales (Salesforce, Hubspot etc), not Support (zendesks and freshdesks).

Hmm… In my mind "CRM" is "Customer Relationship Management", and I use Fernand to manage relationships with my customers :-)

Re: Migrating to the EU

#727

Post by jwr »

jwr wrote: post #584

I can recommend: * Hetzner.de for servers (I've been using their physical servers for many years now, incredible performance per € spent) * Fernand as your CRM, it's smooth and nice and so much better and faster than all the zendesks and freshdesks it's not even funny. ( https://getfernand.com/ ) * AISLER if you design electronics and need to make PCBs ( https://aisler.net/ )

Ok, so this shows how bad I am at marketing. I forgot to mention my own service, if you are building electronics: PartsBox, https://partsbox.com/ (insert facepalm emoji here)

Re: Migrating to the EU

#728

Post by pjmlp »

deaux wrote: post #721
pjmlp wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Including EU sponsored programming languages and OSes? This is something I think it is a blind spot we have and not big answer, because even if we take into account FOSS, ISO and ECMA languages, the biggest sponsors for those toolchains are US companies. It will take decades to go back to the cold war days, of hardware, programming languages and OSes with European origin.

> EU sponsored programming languages Those really don't matter. > OSes If you're talking about "US sponsoring" of Linux distros, then that doesn't matter either. If you mean Android and iOS, then you're right. There's a super simple heuristic here. Does China care? If not, it doesn't matter. China doesn't care about adopting a Chinese-made programming language instead of Python or Typescript or Rust, meaning control…

Actually it matters, that is Huawei came up with ArkTS for HarmonyNEXT.

Re: Migrating to the EU

#729

Post by deaux »

pjmlp wrote: post #728
deaux wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EU sponsored programming languages Those really don't matter. > OSes If you're talking about "US sponsoring" of Linux distros, then that doesn't matter either. If you mean Android and iOS, then you're right. There's a super simple heuristic here. Does China care? If not, it doesn't matter. China doesn't care about adopting a Chinese-made programming language instead of Python or Typescript or Rust, meaning control…

Actually it matters, that is Huawei came up with ArkTS for HarmonyNEXT.

It doesn't matter, which is why China (the country) isn't putting weight behind it. There are hundreds of non-Chinese companies with a specific language for their systems. It's completely incomparable to things that China the country does care about, such as the aforementioned mobile OSes. Of course they'd rather the languages and everything else is Chinese-controlled, that's trivially true. But priorities make all the difference, and this one is incredibly low as so to be a waste of time to even mention until everything else is in place.

Re: Migrating to the EU

#730

Post by threethirtytwo »

thejohnconway wrote: post #286
threethirtytwo wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no point in switching. Most of these people are dealing with a threat that has an extremely low probability of happening. It is not in any practical way going to affect your life and for most of the people here busy switching to EU services they likely don't have any major example of where it has affect them or anyone one degree away from them. It's mostly an ideal. Like OSS. The practical reality means that…

Honestly, the instability of the political environment in US feels so extreme, that it seems like something could bite you that you didn't even see coming. Just on the Gmail front: maybe Trump decides to trade embargo you country and pressures Google to cut off email access. Maybe he decides Google needs to be broken up and sold for parts, and Gmail's data goes to Truth Social. Maybe he thinks illegal immigrants or "…

Risk is low. Media always over blows the situation. The world has been on the brink of war for over a decade now.

The worst that can happen to most people like you or me is tariffs.

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