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X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

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Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#721

Post by _pdp_ »

joe_mamba wrote: post #574
ImPleadThe5th wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not hypothetical. And in fact the girl who was being targeted was expelled not the boys who did it [1]. Those boys absolutely should be held accountable. But I also don't think that Grok should be able to quickly and easily generate fake revenge porn for minors. [1] https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/girl-...

>And in fact the girl who was being targeted was expelled not the boys who did it [1]. And the AI is at fault for this sentencing, not the school authorities/prosecutors/judges dishing justice? WTF. How is this an AI problem and not a legal system problem?

You know there is no such thing as the world police or something of that sort.

If the perpetrator is in another country / jurisdiction it is virtually impossible to prosecute let alone sentence.

It is 100% regulatory problem in this case. You just cannot allow this content to be generated and distributed in the public domain by anonymous users. It has nothing to do with free speech but with civility and common understanding of what is morally wrong / right.

Obviously you cannot prevent this in private forums unless it is made illegal which is a completely different problem that requires a very different solution.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#722

Post by kimixa »

reddalo wrote: post #691
actionfromafar wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are going a bit too far. Let's start from the beginning, create and own: You're sketching out some nude fanart on a piece of paper. You created that and own that. Thas has always been illegal ?! (This is apart from my feelings on Mechahitler/Grok, which aren't positive.)

You can _almost_ do anything you want in the privacy of your home; but in this case Twitter was actively and directly disseminating pictures publicly on their platform.

And profiting from it, though less directly than "$ for illegal images". Even if it wasn't behind a paywall (which it mostly is) driving more traffic for more ads for more income is still profiting from illegal imagery.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#723

Post by bluegatty »

Altern4tiveAcc wrote: post #53

> Prosecutors say they are now investigating whether X has broken the law across multiple areas. This step could come before a police raid. This looks like plain political pressure. No lives were saved, and no crime was prevented by harassing local workers.

No, that's not at all how this works.

They have a court order obviously to collect evidence.

You have offered zero evidence to indicate there is 'political pressure' and that statement by prosecutors doesn't hint at that.

'No crime was prevented by harassing workers' is essentially non sequitor in this context.

It could be that that this is political nonsense, but there would have to be more details.

These issues are really hard but we have to confront them. X can alter electoral outcomes. That's where we are at.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#724

Post by myrmidon »

Eisenstein wrote: post #677
myrmidon wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are multiple valid reasons to fight realistic computer-generated CSAM content. Uncontrolled profileration of AI-CSAM makes detection of "genuine" data much harder, prosecution of perpetrators more difficult and specifically in many of the grok cases it harms young victims that were used as templates for the material. Content is unacceptable if its proliferation causes sufficient harm, and this is arguably the c…

> Uncontrolled profileration of AI-CSAM makes detection of "genuine" data much harder I don't follow. If the prosecutor can't find evidence of a crime and a person is not charged, that is considered harmful? As such the 5th amendment would fall under the same category and so would encryption. Making law enforcement have to work harder to find evidence of a crime cannot be criminalized unless you can come up with a re…

If there is a glut of legal, AI generated CSAM material then this provides a lot of deniability for criminal creators/spreaders that cause genuine harm, and reduces "vigilance" of prosecutors, too ("it's probably just AI generated anyway...").

You could make a multitude of arguments against that perspective, but at least there is a conclusive reason for legal restrictions.

> What is the criteria for this?

My criteria would be victims suffering personally from the generated material.

The "no harm" argument only really applies if victims and their social bubble never find out about the material (but that did happen, sometimes intentionally, in many cases).

You could make the same argument that a hidden camera in a locker room never causes any harm as long as it stays undetected; that is not very convincing to me.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#725

Post by thrance »

exodust wrote: post #531
mnewme wrote: post #519

Good one. No platform ever should allow CSAM content. And the fact that they didn’t even care and haven’t want to spend money for implementing guardrails or moderation is deeply concerning. This has imho nothing to do with model censorship, but everything with allowing that kind of content on a platform

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#726

Post by bluegatty »

techblueberry wrote: post #27

I'm not saying I'm entirely against this, but just out of curiosity, what do they hope to find in a raid of the french offices, a folder labeled "Grok's CSAM Plan"?

Email history caches. They could also have provided requirements to provide communications etc..

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#727

Post by ReptileMan »

thrance wrote: post #719
ReptileMan wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Prosecute people that use the tools, not the tool makers if AI generated content is breaking the law. A provider should have no responsibility how the tools are used. It is on users. This is a can of worms that should stay closed, because we all lose freedoms just because of couple of bad actors. AI and tool main job is to obey. We are hurling at "I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that" future with b…

How? X is hostile to any party attempting to bring justice to its users that are breaking the law. This is a last recourse, after X and its owner stated plainly that they don't see anything wrong with generating CSAM or pornographic images of non-consenting people, and that they won't do anything about it.

Court order, ip of users, sue the users. It is not X job to bring justice.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#728

Post by moorebob »

ReptileMan wrote: post #655
mnewme wrote: post #519

Good one. No platform ever should allow CSAM content. And the fact that they didn’t even care and haven’t want to spend money for implementing guardrails or moderation is deeply concerning. This has imho nothing to do with model censorship, but everything with allowing that kind of content on a platform

I disagree. Prosecute people that use the tools, not the tool makers if AI generated content is breaking the law. A provider should have no responsibility how the tools are used. It is on users. This is a can of worms that should stay closed, because we all lose freedoms just because of couple of bad actors. AI and tool main job is to obey. We are hurling at "I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that" future with b…

But how would we bring down our political boogieman Elon Musk if we take that approach?

Everything I read from X's competitors in the media tells me to hate X, and hate Elon.

If we prosecute people not tools, how are we going to stop X from hurting the commercial interests of our favourite establishment politicians and legacy media?

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#729

Post by szmarczak »

ReptileMan wrote: post #689
mnewme wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that users who break the law must be prosecuted. But that doesn’t remove responsibility from tool providers when harm is predictable, scalable, and preventable by design. We already apply this logic elsewhere. Car makers must include seatbelts. Pharma companies must ensure safety. Platforms must moderate illegal content. Responsibility is shared when the risk is systemic.

>But that doesn’t remove responsibility from tool providers when harm is predictable, scalable, and preventable by design. Platforms moderating illegal content is exactly what we are arguing about, so you can't use it as an argument. The rest cases you list are harms to the people using the tools/products. It is not harms that people using the tools inflict on third parties. We are literally arguing about 3d printer…

You are literally trolling. No one is banning AI entirely. However AI shouldn't spit out adult content. Let's not enable people harm others easily with little to no effort.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#730

Post by thrance »

ReptileMan wrote: post #727
thrance wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? X is hostile to any party attempting to bring justice to its users that are breaking the law. This is a last recourse, after X and its owner stated plainly that they don't see anything wrong with generating CSAM or pornographic images of non-consenting people, and that they won't do anything about it.

Court order, ip of users, sue the users. It is not X job to bring justice.

X will not provide these informations to the French Justice System. What then? Also insane that you believe the company that built a "commit crime" button bears no responsibility whatsoever in this debacle.
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